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mamabearCali wrote:I think KoC that the only reason those things are in this conversation is because at first they were scrubbed up and the picture put out of him was several years old. Even I when I first saw it thought a 12 year old had been shot. If those pushing the "innocent black child (6 foot 3 inch is not a child in my book) got shot by big bad whitey" had not attempted to scrub those pictures then I don't think his appearance would be part of this discussion at all.

Point taken. Thank you.

Keith B wrote: It's called 'initial perception'. Everyone makes a judgement on first seeing or meeting someone, even you. It is only AFTER you get to know them that you find they are good people.

Which has nothing to do with whether or not they committed a crime. It's completely irrelevant. I'm well aware that we all make judgements of people when we meet them. My gripe is with assuming that these judgements are correct. The kid has gold teeth and some tattoos. That doesn't add anything substantive to this mystery.

Some of you are going off the rocker just as much as the media is with some of these post. What does him having tattoos, a grill, or his taste in music have to do with the case? You can't make statements about wanting to stick to the facts, then act like any of that is pertinent. I know lots of people with tatoos. I know lots of people who like musicians who have made by choices. I'm sure many of you are in both of these camps. I also know a lot of people with grills, and they aren't all bad either. Come on guys...

On a unrelated note, can someone explain to me why so many of you think who was on top before the shooting occurred matters? It has nothing to do with who started the actual fight. Zimmerman's account is the only one we have for before the fight started, and as such unless evidence exist to contradict him should be believed. But to assume that him being on the bottom completely corroborates his story is a bit silly. All that actually means is that he was losing the fight. I do think things are getting much better for Mr. Zimmerman by the day, and hope this thing is sorted out quickly, but it doesn't change the fact that the real important things will always be unknown

This just keeps getting more interesting. The fact of the matter is that this whole thing hinges on who started the fight and/or if Zimmerman tried to retreat once the fight was started. Since it seems like we'll never be able to know either of these things,no witnesses, no audio, no video etc. , the only real account we have is Zimmerman's. While it may not sit right with some people, unless/until you can find hard evidence that contradicts his story, it really isn't logical to assume it's anything but true.

A-R wrote:Bald eagle, great post

Good follow up by heartland patriot as well.

No question Zimmerman made egregious mistakes, very possibly to the point of a crime in itself (though I'm still not convinced of this legal theory myself that by merely following Martin and putting Martin in reasonable fear Zimmerman was committing "assault"). I believe strongly that if anyone had "stand your ground" rights in this situation it was likely Martin. But that's not the ONLY possible theory of what may have happened. Still waiting for complete reveal of evidence pointing one way or the other.

I'd have to agree with you

Florida Penal Code wrote: 784.011 Assault.—
(1) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 5, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2400; GS 3226; RGS 5059; CGL 7161; s. 1, ch. 70-88; s. 729, ch 71-136; s. 17, ch. 74-383; s. 7, ch. 75-298; s. 171, ch. 91-224.
Note.—Former s. 784.02.

I don't think just following someone is a threat of violence. What say you guys?

Heartland Patriot wrote: Zimmerman handled things badly, no matter what else happened. I just wish this was being handled as a local crime in Florida instead of some opportunistic attempt by the media to possibly curtail hard-(re)earned self-defense rights, as well as certain politicians who will no doubt do their best to ride this to victory in the elections this fall. I think it was stated well earlier in regards to do people really think that a police department, knowing how crimes like this will appear, would not look at the evidence merely because of some alleged hatred of a racial group? REALLY? To me, that defies belief...one way or another, this whole thing stinks...I feel we, the American public at large, of ALL RACES, are being played for fools...

Oh it's definitely going to be used as a ploy for re-election. It's the only smart thing for a politician to do. But yes, I do think a police departments response could be different based on race. I'm not calling them hooded klansmen, or even consciously intolerant, but I do think it comes into play when people make decisions. The same way Zimmerman thought the boy was suspicious, maybe they'd be more suspicious of him, Zimmerman's, story if he was a black guy. In the real world, things like that happen. It's just life. It's much better to accept it, then to pretend like it doesn't happen. It's really not relevant, and that was more me thinking as I typed. Don't want to start another sidebar. That's already been done. Hopefully it all gets sorted out, and the ignorant ones calling for the curtailing of our rights don't gain any ground.

Oldgringo wrote:

WildBill wrote:This whole situation is getting out of hand.

Your are correct, this is becoming a national stinkeroo! I'll ask again, what if the players had both been white, both been black or Hispanic? Would we even have heard of it?

Sensationalism sold newspapers and it now sells TV air time. That said, something does smell about this happening, what is it? Is it about guns or what?

Maybe not. But if Zimmerman had been black and Martin white I bet my house he'd have been arrested from the get go. Which is really what the outrage is about more so than the incident itself. When I first heard about the case my first thought was "Oh god, some idiot's going to ruin stand your ground for everyone". Though after reading through this thread, I'm a bit interested in how people would be responding if things happened exactly the same way, only Zimmerman was the one who ended up shot.