TexasCHLforum.com

srothstein wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:

talltex wrote:The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...

Interesting. Do you know where I could find that? Link?

You will have to dig through their site to find it, but it is the office of court administration.
http://www.courts.state.tx.us/oca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yep, that's the place...you can check any town, and you can specify whatever time frame you want to look at. The data I had quoted previously came from a chart that a guy had already gone in and compiled which listed the top 40 towns using 2000-2008 data. I just punched in for Jan. 2011 thru Oct.2011 and Westlake is still #1 and has increased its revenue more than double the amount quoted and for 2011 it is now a whopping $42,000.00 per resident. Estelline has also jumped into #2 spot with over $18,000 per resident.

Oldgringo wrote:

talltex wrote:

srothstein wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

I'm surprised that none have mentioned tiny (this current speed trap thread) Estelline out on 287 towards Amarillo. I suspect that its source of revenue is speeding tickets because there is absolutely nothing there and there seems to be a speed cop at both ends of town whenever we pass through.

That said and lessons learned, abide by the posted speed limits in these burgs, big and small, regardless of time of day or week, and there shouldn't be major problems...maybe.

Estelline IS one of the top ranked towns in revenue per capita according to state statistics...

srothstein wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

But as I said, those are very rare now and most people use the term speed trap for any place that strictly enforces the speed laws.

I agree that "strict enforcement" comprises the majority of the definition, but would also add that the volume of tickets written on a per capita basis, along with the amount of revenue generated, plays a big part in the perception of most people of it being a "speed trap". The state does track the volume and dollar amounts of traffic violations by town...and some of the figures will amaze you. The leader in the revenue per capita category goes to Westlake...with over $18,000 in fine revenue per resident. Thats over 10 times the average property tax per Texas household. The second place is a town with only 156 residents that generates almost $15,000 per person...you can lower the property tax and utility bills pretty easily with that amount of additional revenue. The other factor in the revenue equation is the amount of the fines...the Texas Administrative Code provides guidelines, but the municipalities can pretty much do what they want. The state recommends that a school zone violation have an additonal penalty from $25.00-50.00 above the regular fine for speeding and they also have guidelines for speeding on non school zone violations such as for 5 to 10 miles over posted limit $50-75 plus court costs....with fines increasing as violation goes farther over limit. The example I posted from Texline was a base fine of $185.00 for 1 to 10 mph over posted limit, plus $200.00 add on for school zone. I can't imagine anyone thinking that a $385.00 fine for driving 29mph on a 4 lane road, with no traffic and during a time period when all the children are in school, is not excessive, and designed more as a revenue enhancement then a safety measure.

[Posted speed limits have nothing to do with a location being a "speed trap", eh? I get it now, it's all about money.[/quote]

The posted limits certainly come into play in many cases, because they will often drop the posted limit a large amount suddenly rather than gradually ramping it down as you come into the town. There's a very small town on Hwy. 22, between Hillsboro and Corsicana named Frost, that had NO operating businesses on the highway...just a cotton gin, and an vacant gas station that hasn't been open in years...the rest of the town is residential area to the side of the main highway.
About 10-15 years ago, I was heading to Tyler to swap vehicles with another dealer,(back when speed limit was still 55mph) and a half mile out of town my radar detector went off (this is flat, blackland cotton fields). I could see the police car sitting under the canopy of the old gas station long before I got into city limits and slowed down to 50mph as I went past him. He pulled out and flipped on the lights and I really thought it was because there was no license plate on the bumper or Inspection/registration stickers on windshield, because I was running a dealer plate. I had the window down, hands on wheel and license in my hand as he walked up and I said something to the effect "guess you couldn't see the dealer tag in the window until you got up close, huh?" He said "Uhh, no sir...actually I stopped you for speeding." (young, very polite guy). I looked at him and said "I wasn't speeding officer...I saw you way before I got into town and I slowed down to 50." He looked kinda' sheepish and said I'm sorry , but the speed limit in the downtown area is 30mph". I couldn't help myself, and looked back at the area where had been parked, and said "hmmm...guess I didn't see the speed limit sign...and sure didn't realize I was in the downtown area...where was it exactly" (said this in a joking friendly manner with a smile on my face). He replied, "you'd really have to be looking for it, it's 2 blocks from the old gin to the gas station." I nodded at him and said "I see...well, I guess you HAVE to right the ticket don't you?" He said "yes sir, I do, sorry...I appreciate you being nice about it." After I signed it he told me "I want to let you know they are running radar today in Kerens and Malakoff up the road too, so be sure you're not going over 30 through either one of them because they are hitting it hard today." I told him thanks for the info...sure enough they both had cars stopped when I went through going and coming back.

Oldgringo wrote:What, exactly, is a "speed trap"?

I would describe a "speed trap" as any situation where the municipality manipulates the signage or locations of signs to increase revenues by making it easy for tickets to be written. I actually think there is a statute that limits the percentage of total city revenue that can come fron traffic violations...something like 50-60% maybe...and above that they have to give it to the state general fund, but I'm not sure it's still in effect. Most often see it in small towns, looking to generate income. I just saw a prime example last week out in Texline, Tx...on New Mexico border west of Dalhart. Population of 521, one convenience store, a grain elevator, one small motel, one service station/tire repair, and couple of welding shops. Speed limit is 35mph thru town, but they have a school zone that's 20mph which is marked by suspended flashing light even with the convenience store. The SZ extends for 4 blocks. There are 2 issues that make it a speed trap IMHO: first anyone pulling out of the convenience store after getting gas, snack, etc, is not likely to think about being in a SZ when they pull out of the parking lot since the sign is behind them heading west and there is no indicator at the end of the SZ 4 blocks ahead unless you look in the mirror and see the flashing light facing the eastbound lane. Secondly, and far more important is that unlike any other town I'm aware of, they don't have the SZ lights set for school opening/leaving times...they leave them on continously, all day...maybe 24 hours...but I know they were on at 11:15 am on Friday and and 5:20pm on Monday. They have a City Marshal, driving his personal 3/4 ton Ford crew cab, with a Texline City Marshal decal...doesn't have regular red/blue strobe light bar...just two round yellow hazard flasher type lights mounted on the roof. He was writing a ticket on the east end of town as my wife and I drove into town and pulled into the conv. store (in two separate vehicles on our way to Colorado) and filled up with gas. Wife went inside while I filled the cars and watched him drive back and park 2 blocks up on our side of the road...when she came back out I commented to her to watch her speed as he was obviously working radar. I pulled out ahead of her and just kind of idled along at about 15 mph waiting for her until she exited the parking lot. As I was at the west edge of town...about 6 blocks...I looked in my mirror and saw the Marshal pulling my wife over right behind me, and stopped to see what was going on. Neither of us had realized we were in a school zone, and he said he had clocked her driving 29 mph (6 mph below the posted limit if not SZ)...end of story is he wrote a ticket that is $385.00 for driving 29 mph, during a time frame that the SZ should not have been in effect, while no children were present ($185.10 base amount for any speeding ticket, plus a $200.00 add on for it being in a school zone). As my wife told him, it was not intentional...she could see him sitting right in front of her when she pulled out and obviously wouldn't have purposely speeded. He said "you can take it up with the Judge...she's here on Thursdays", climbed back in his truck and had another vehicle pulled over before we had driven off. THAT'S a "speed trap"...he's probably bringing in more revenue than all the town's sales/property taxes combined....even at 4 tickets per hour, if he does that 4 hours a day, 3 days a week, thats generating $18,000 a week for the town.