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Ruark

Please keep us posted as to when we can watch for the live video feed of the HB910 and/or 308 vote!

Ruark

mojo84 wrote:Austin is Austin. Until the locals sober up and change their voting habits, they will continue to lie in the bed they've made. That's their decision.

Problem is, they're not really locals. Austin is overrun with tens of thousands of misplaced Kalifornians, including Police Chief Acevedo. That's where a lot of this hysteria is coming from.

Ruark

A lot of these guys would be 100% better off if they would just stop jabbering about "the constitution." But still.... after that incident with the jaywalker and Acevedo's reaction to it, nothing would surprise me at this point. That guy has got to go.

Ruark

You know, a LOT of my feelings about these cop-stops would depend on the nature of the interaction. If a passing officer just briefly paused, glanced at my CHL, said "thanks, have a good one" and kept walking, that might be tolerable now and then. But if he acts in a domineering manner, attracting attention, takes my gun "for your own safety" while he examines my CHL/ID, then tells me to stand there (maybe with a couple of other officers who have arrived by now) while he moseys back to his cruiser to run a warrant check (while a crowd gathers) or mutters for 10 minutes on his shoulder mic, well, you get the picture... that would be a different matter.

Ruark

K5GU wrote: Can't the LEO still use "reasonable suspicion" if he is dispatched to a 9-1-1 MWAG scene? Public is "alarmed", etc.?

This approach came up on a YouTube video where a guy was carrying his AR around his neighborhood and half a dozen people called the police about a MWAG. They came to the house and of course he started jabbering about the 2nd Amendment. The LEO said the focus wasn't on the 2nd, it was on people being alarmed. Seems like the same logic could be applied to OC under certain circumstances. For example:

It is perfectly legal to carry a baseball bat. It is perfectly legal to walk around in a Speedo. It is perfectly legal to wear scuba flippers.

Now, suppose you walked through an upscale mall in a Speedo and scuba flippers, carrying a baseball bat? Nobody can make a peep, right? You're not doing anything illegal. But of course, it wouldn't work like that. Somebody would call the police, and you'd be hauled off for something like creating a public disturbance, or some similar charge. Or, at the very least, you'd be made to leave the premises, not because of what you were doing, but because of the public alarm you created.

Could the same apply to open carry?

Ruark

mojo84 wrote:I agree. I also think the more people that open carry in a professional nonshowy manner, ie. men not in skirts or dressed like a gangbanging thugs, and deal with others including cops in a respectful manner, the better off we will all be and the sooner more progress will be made.

Yes, you can call me Captain Obvious.

Captain Obvious makes an extremely important point, especially in these "early days" of Texas OC: that we are all ambassadors for the CCW/OC population. People will judge the CCW/OC concept based on what they see. Please don't open carry and wear your "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" t-shirt. Every person who approaches you in fear, and walks away thinking "hey, he's OK, he's a nice guy" is a huge victory.

Ruark

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Salty1 wrote:If I was stopped for OC'ing I would be very respectful to the officer and not have an attitude towards them and show them the requested identification then go on my way. The best thing we could do if faced with that situation is to be a good ambassador for the entire CHL program. I believe that most officers if treated respectfully will change their behavior after a few positive encounters.

IMO to get respect we have to show respect in a professional manor, remember this is going to be new for all of the LEO's out there as well. There will be a learning curve for the LEO's to become comfortable with the fact that guns are being carried openly which conflicts with their previous training.
It will be beneficial to all Texas gun owners if Salty1's advice is taken to heart. This is how we make open-carry as successful has concealed-carry has been for 20 years.

Chas.

Although I've made some rather expletive posts about "papers, please" encounters, this is absolutely true. The vast majority of cops I've met have been very courteous and professional, and the last thing in the world I would want to do is make their day more stressful than it already is. I think a good idea (if the amendment stands) is to decide exactly how you would respond to an unjustified ID request.

Ruark

Wes wrote: Just show your ID if asked when you open carry. They aren't trying to harras you and be honest, it does not put you out to comply.

I would show it to avoid a public mess, but I have a right to walk down a sidewalk without being confronted by a police officer with a "papers, please" command. That's why I made the original post. And I would certainly report it, file a complaint, etc.

Ruark

CoffeeNut wrote:
jmra wrote:
Ruark wrote:Assuming the amendment stands, what legal remedy do you have if a cop DOES stop you and demands your CHL/ID with no probable cause? I would probably cooperate just to avoid a mess, but afterwards, are there any steps that could be taken?
If I were inclined to OC (I doubt I will), I would carry a recording device along with a copy of the legislation.
Comply, record and complain afterwards (if necessary) sounds like a good policy.

Yes, but complain to who?

Ruark

Assuming the amendment stands, what legal remedy do you have if a cop DOES stop you and demands your CHL/ID with no probable cause? I would probably cooperate just to avoid a mess, but afterwards, are there any steps that could be taken?

Ruark

I can see the logic on both sides. On one hand, it would be difficult for a good cop to look the other way upon seeing a black gangbanger strutting down a Dove Springs sidewalk in baggy pants and a sideways baseball cap with a gun on his hip, compared to a middle age yuppie walking to his BMW at Nordstrom's in his Birkenstocks and Polo shirt, accompanied by his wife pushing a baby carriage.

On the other hand, yeah, that screams profiling. Some cops would be reasonable about it, while others would see it as "open season on open carriers" and harass people mercilessly. Even with this amendment, some may stretch credibility in coming up with reasons to detain: "uh, yeah, we've had some breakins lately...." "there's been some trouble in this area, so we're just checking..." just to have an excuse for an "investigatory detainment."

It'll be really interesting to see how all this pans out.

Ruark

v7a wrote:Tell us how you really feel, Austin PD Chief Acevedo:

Open Season For Armed Criminals and Extremists
Yesterday's amendment to Texas' Open Carry Legislation is beyond belief and Aiken to open season for gang members, drug cartels, outlaw motor cycle gangs and any other criminal or extremist to defy the law with impunity, just brilliannt! If criminals, drug cartels, and extremists had a seat at the policy writing table they couldn't have come up with s better Amendment.

By prohibiting law enforcement from stopping or detaining to check for CHL, Texas is authorizing within our state lines any and all criminals to carry a firearm. My heart goes out to domestic violence victims and the victims of violent crimes in our State. Through this amendment we are facilitating the victimization of the people we are sworn to serve, protect and lead.

Here is a scenario, next time groups face off in our Capital City at the Capitol, Klan with their hoods on, Panthers with their faces covered, ISIS sympathizers with their faces covered and just about any other extremist group, armed with firearms authorized by Open-Carry, law enforcement will have absolutely no authority to ensure the people who are armed as they wish..........why bother common sense has officially died and writing any further would be fruitless.

Poor Art. All those Ku Klux Klansmen, Black Panthers and Bandidos running around waving their guns. Terrible. Maybe he'll go back to California now.

Ruark

CJD wrote:As far as I understand what others on this forum have said, it is because it wasn't substituted. Therefore, it has to go through the Senate the same as any other House bill, except, perhaps, it may be able to bypass a Committee hearing.

When it goes through the Senate, will they have to listen to all those silly opposition speeches again?

Ruark

locke_n_load wrote:Sec. 411.2049. CERTAIN INVESTIGATORY STOPS AND INQUIRIES
7 PROHIBITED. A peace officer may not make an investigatory stop
8 or other temporary detention to inquire as to whether a person
9 possesses a handgun license solely because the person is
10 carrying a partially or wholly visible handgun carried in a
11 shoulder or belt holster.

All riiiiiiight!!!! That was a major open carry issue for me, that some lard-assed cop is going to wobble up to me... "justaminnit here, son, step over here for a second...."

I won't OC all the time, but when I do, I'm going to carry a copy of this code with me.

Ruark

v7a wrote:Probably my favorite moment in yesterday's debate:
(when the Chair got tired of Stickland's whining)

[ Image ]

I wonder if that hammer ever breaks....

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