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by Skiprr
Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:30 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?
Replies: 68
Views: 10167

Re: Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?

sugar land dave wrote:IANAL, but if the AG opinion above has no meaning, why would the DPS post it on their website?
IMHO, DPS posted it simply because it exists and because it was an opinion related to carrying a handgun. That this opinion was rendered eight legislative sessions ago doesn’t factor into, again IMHO, DPS’s choice to post it on the Website.

BTW, the actual letter from Dan Morales can be viewed as a PDF file here.

Neither the Texas Government Code nor Texas Penal Code read today as it did in August 1995. And there will be changes again come September.

I know I get verbose. Let me near a keyboard, and I’ll keep punching at it. So I realize my earlier post is history. But since you’re in Sugar Land, I’ll ask:

Do you realize that over half of the county/city parks, by acreage, in the Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown statistical metropolitan area reside on property owned by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and are therefore subject to U.S. Title 36, Chapter III, Part 327?

Just askin’.
by Skiprr
Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:41 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?
Replies: 68
Views: 10167

Re: Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?

I’ll throw another wrench into the discussion with an item that’s always been a personal frustration for me. The situation exists in other cities, but is prominent in west Houston because of the city’s topology, growth, and urban sprawl over the past decades.

Three large parks are west of Houston, two north and one south of I-10 outside of the Beltway, and running more or less between Eldridge Parkway and Barker-Cypress Road. The land for these areas was set aside in 1946. At the time, the densely populated areas of Houston ended over 15 miles to the east. This was rural land, previously used mainly for rice cultivation. Now, they lie in the middle of heavy suburban development, and are virtually split by the so-called Energy Corridor along I-10.

Courtesy of Google Maps, you can see the relative size of these areas of land in a wide satellite view of Houston:

Image

These parks are:
  • George Bush Park; approximately 7,800 acres south of I-10; main entrance at 16756 Westheimer; administered and maintained by Harris County, Precinct 3. Facilities include over 11 miles of walking trails, nature trails, picnic areas, soccer, baseball, softball fields, an equestrian trail, a dog park, a model airplane airport, and it is home to American Shooting Centers.
  • Cullen Park; approximately 9,200 acres south of I-10; main entrance at 19008 Saums Road; administered and maintained by the City of Houston Parks and Recreation Department. Facilities include over eight miles of hike and bike trails (3.34 miles paved), a complete baseball/softball complex with clubhouse, viewing stands, and four diamonds, multiple picnic areas and equipped playgrounds, nature areas including wildflower plantings and wetlands, an archery range, and an HEB-sponsored water playground for kids.
  • Bear Creek Park; approximately 2,200 acres north of I-10; main entrance off Eldridge at 3535 War Memorial Drive; administered and maintained by Harris County, Precinct 3. Facilities include a 54-hole golf course, a driving range and two practice putting greens, over two miles of paved and lighted walking trails, tennis courts, baseball, softball, and soccer fields, an equestrian trail, a protected wildlife habitat and aviary, and it is home to the Harris County War Memorial.
The kicker? Even though these are county and city parks, they reside on land owned and governed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Bear Creek Park and Cullen Park are part of a 13,693 acre area owned by the COE and designated as the Addicks Reservoir; George Bush Park is part of a 12,583 acre area owned by the COE and designated as the Barker Reservoir.

The COE can grant other entities, public or private, use of portions of their land, and can suspend some of their regulations to the benefit of the lessee, at the discretion of the COE. That’s how American Shooting Centers can operate on the land. The Addicks range of the Bayou Rifles club also resides on COE property.

COE land is federal property. However, the federal laws governing the possession of firearms on COE land are not limited to U.S. Title 18. To see that whole picture you have to read Title 36, Chapter III, Part 327. Specifically:
327.13 Explosives, Firearms, Other Weapons and Fireworks

(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows or other weapons is prohibited unless:
  • (1) in the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
    (2) being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under Section 327.8, with devices being unloaded when being transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
    (3) being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
    (4) written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosive or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.
And...
327.26 State and Local Laws

(a) Except as otherwise provided herein or by the Federal law or regulation, state and local laws and ordinances shall apply on project lands and waters. This includes, but is not limited to, state and local laws and ordinances governing:
  • (1) Operation and use of motor vehicles, vessels, and aircraft;
    (2) Hunting, fishing, and trapping;
    (3) Use of firearms or other weapons;
    (4) Civil disobedience and criminal acts;
    (5) Littering, sanitation and pollution; and
    (6) Alcohol or other controlled substances.
(b) These state and local laws and ordinances are enforced by those state and local enforcement agencies established and authorized for that purpose.
While 327.26(a)(3) might lead you to believe that a CHL would allow you to carry on COE property, it is the COE’s Legal Department’s contention that nowhere inside the COE boundaries is a weapon/firearm allowed, loaded or unloaded, with a CHL or without, unless expressly described in 327.13. Further, within the boundaries of COE-owned land/water, they have full authority to search private property for firearms or explosives even if in a state, county, or municipal park. Though they do admit that searches typically happen only with obvious and serious cause.

Complicating the matter is that there seems to be no requirement to clearly mark with signage all the boundaries of COE land. If a CHL holder is not already aware of the COE land boundaries, he may simply believe he is driving, biking, or walking into a county or city park just like any other county or city park. For example, at the northwest corner of George Bush Park the hike and bike trails leave (or enter, if you’re heading west) the COE area and continue for several miles in two different branches known as the Terry Hershey Park Hike & Bike Trail. The portion of the trails east of Highway 6 are not on COE land; you enter COE land after crossing the trail underpass at Highway 6.

Ultimately, this was a long-winded example as a way to say that a state/county/city park is not always a state/county/city park when it comes to carrying a firearm. Unless you are a LEO, you need to do your research before assuming a park is really what it seems to be.

And, at least in west Houston, this isn’t a small exception: Cullen Park is the largest park in Greater Houston by acreage, and George Bush Park is second largest. Bear Creek Park comes in at fourth behind Lake Houston Park. These three parks total 19,200 acres...that’s 30 square miles of county/city parks that sit on land owned by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and, according to them, U.S. Title 36, Chapter III, Part 327 makes it against federal law to carry on this property either under authority of your CHL or under the Texas Motorists Protection Act.

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