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yerasimos wrote:Skiprr, think of it this way: a manufacturer could have two-three dozen whiz-bang engineers and technicians using CAD/CAM and CNC machining, with a dozen six-sigma black belt managers running the show. It only takes two distracted guys--one talking on a cell phone while handling his car keys near some unprotected guns, the other rushing to box them before his shift ends--to send the guns to the distributor/dealer with scratches. Accidents happen in industry, and here the casualty is quality.

Then the Six Sigma gurus and/or managers should be fired. Plain and simple. Accidents happen in finished products only because they are allowed to happen. It doesn't matter if it's the designers fault or the guy who does pack-to-ship.

I'd be more apt to suspect the two distracted guys accidentally scratching the gun with a handful of keys was downstream, probably at the dealer. The dealer is a retailer, often a small business under a few million dollars in revenue, without the benefit of business process management frameworks used by large companies. My local dealer, whom I love and support with my purchases, takes his ARs and AKs off the wall at the end of each business day--to prevent easy visibility for theft--and puts them back at the beginning of each business day. Were I to examine a damaged AR in his shop, it's that repetitive, unstructured activity I'd suspect over manufacturer error.

Accidents happen in the supply chain, but they should seldom--very, very seldom--happen in production. To achieve Six Sigma, a process must not produce more than 3.4 defects per million opportunities. I'm not saying all firearm manufacturers achieve Six Sigma, but in your example I'll stand by my statement that those managers need to be fired if some process so simple as pack-to-ship causes such an easy opportunity for damage. The company I work for is a Fortune 500, and I can attest that any defect up or down the production line is treated with equal importance.

yerasimos wrote:It is possible that our expectations of quality are ahead of some manufacturers' abilities to deliver such quality to the retail customer.

I'd actually counter that statement. I posted in another Topic about the incredible change in handguns in particular (what I know most about--though I realize this thread is about a long gun) in the past decade or so. Computer Aided Design and Manufacturing (CAD/CAM) and CNC machining have revolutionized firearm design, proof-of-concept testing, and even milling the piece of steel (or casting the polymer or MIM, as the case may be).

Twenty years ago only a select few craftsmen could build you a custom firearm, and they did it as artisans, taking minute bits of clay away a piece at a time until the final sculpture was revealed. We certainly don't want to lose the artistry, and if we ever lose the original creativity we're doomed. But "custom" is "common" nowadays.

Manufacturing principles and methods like Lean and Six Sigma aren't new. I would, frankly, expect the manufacturer of my plastic disposable dental floss holder to use these and other Business Process Management (BPM) best practices. Much less the manufacturer of my firearm.

So I hold firearm manufacturers to a very high standard of quality. Higher now than ever before. I'm not saying computer-driven machining will beat an artisan's care and molding, but out-of-the-box from the major manufacturers what we see today should be the best we've ever seen. That's technological progression.

Back on topic. If the gun(s) Kinny looked at was scarred and marred: no sale. Don't know who's fault it was--guy packing it at the manufacturer; shipper; guy receiving it at the dealer; guy moving it around at the dealer's store--doesn't matter. I'm not buying a new car with a key-scratch down the side, and I'm not buying a new gun with the same sort of abuse.

Kinny, you were too kind. Instead of, "I'll think about it," I'd have said, "You would have had my business, but I can't accept a damaged product."