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The FBI concluded that shot placement is the primary standard above all others, including depth of penetration (should be 12 -14"); so trying to argue about the power of a 380 verses a 10 doesnt disprove shot placement, but in fact may help to prove it.

Maybe I missed it (I quit reading) but nothing tangible has been offered that disproves the FBI's analysis is wrong. Rhetoric and conjecture will not disprove scientific analysis from such a recognized organization of experts. Its research concludes that "shot placement is everything", and that is unarguably definitive.

Seriously, a pellet would not penetrate to the depth of a 10, but no if's, ands, or buts about it, a BB or pellet hit to the eye will cause a more disabling injury then a hit from a 45 to the behonkus; and quite probably a one shot stop or death.

Below links to google regarding pellet gun deaths:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&s ... 37&bih=511

Excaliber wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:A 380 in the heart will kill faster than a 45 in the behonkus.

That's why those who have thought this through don't aim for the "behonkus" with the .45 or any other caliber.

So, you too agree that shot placement is #1; my point exactly.

I do not agree that placement is the only variable that makes a difference in a gunfight.

Placement is important, but what you place there is important as well.

If the light, low powered round you use fails to penetrate to reach vital organs, or ricochets off a rib or skull, etc. all those theories of ballistic adequacy won't save you from what your adversary, who will not be amused, will do next.

Your adversary may indeed die later from his wounds. You too will die of yours.

That's not my idea of a successful defensive encounter.

YMMV

That's why Bill Jordan pointed out that in gunfights there are no second place winners.

The FBI concluded that, "Shot placement is everything in a gunfight and always the key to stopping a threat effectively"

The below will link to the FBI's analysis of a shoot out in which the BG suffered multiple wounds that afterwards caused the LEO's to believe that the .40 cal was inadequate. As a result, this analysis was then ordered by the FBI.

Defensive Systems Unit Ballistic Research Facility FBI Academy

Resulted in a belief by Police officials that.40 S&W ammunition failed and .223 ammunition“saved the day”.

The last line on the last page of this report, under "Lessons Learned"

Shot placement is everything in a gunfight and always the key to stopping a threat effectively.

WARNING: THIS LINKS TO A POWER POINT TYPE PRESENTATION THAT INCLUDES PHOTOS OF THE AUTOPSY PHOTOS, HIGHLIGHTING THE BG'S WOUNDS. YOU CAN SCROLL THROUGH THE PHOTOS QUICKLY TO REACH "The Lessons Learned" section.


http://concealedcarryholsters.org/wp-co ... ootout.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Below is a link to my favorite source. Im sure it will start some debate:

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power- The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.

-http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Excaliber wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:A 380 in the heart will kill faster than a 45 in the behonkus.

That's why those who have thought this through don't aim for the "behonkus" with the .45 or any other caliber.

So, you too agree that shot placement is #1; my point exactly.

A 380 in the heart will kill faster than a 45 in the behonkus.

SQLGeek wrote:Jim. Have you done any trigger work with your LC9? I love how the LC9 fits my hand and it's size but the trigger was not very good on the few I've held and shot.

Not yet, but I probably will. Ive learned to stage my shots & on a good day I can group 6" at 20'. (I dont have many good days )Some of my problem is that I wear mono vision contacts and dont keep them clean.

For those who arent familiar:

With monovision, the eye that sees well for distance vision will be slightly blurred up close and the eye that sees well up close will be slightly blurred when looking at distant objects. But with both eyes open, typically the result is acceptably clear and comfortable vision at all distances.

http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/monovision.htm

Mono vision also messes with depth perception; but still beats the dickens out of glasses.

The trigger pull takes some time to get used to. Galloway offers a trigger kit with a shorter bar that reduces travel to about 1/2. This would probably help the average user quite a lot, not sure how much for me; but every little bit is worth the effort.

Youre right about how well the gun fits the hand (with the finger extension) & I have above average hand size. The very first time I picked it up it was "bingo", I then I slid it into my pocket and we've been together ever since!

I carry an IWB Ruger LC9 at 4:30 and love it. It is the most comfortable carry I have worn. When running out for just a second & not feeling like messing with the holster, I can put it in any pocket. In the back pocket of Levis the mag just barely shows. The gun has rounded and tapered edges and doesnt hang up going in or out of a holster or a pocket. Ive got about a 1000 rounds through it.