TexasCHLforum.com

srothstein wrote:

gemini wrote:maybe out of two highly trained officers only one felt the need to fire even though
both were approaching the suspect, seeing the same "perceived" threat or not.

It is kind of funny you mention this. When I was in teh Army, the MPs always patrolled in two man cars. One of the things we were taught in MP school was that if there is a shooting, and only one of the officers shoot, then there will always be the question of whether one officer used too much force or if the other officer was derelict in his duty to shoot. That was in 1975 and the times and legal attitudes were way different from now.

But, in 1991, I was involved in a shooting as an SAPD officer. I was facing down an armed robber who had fired his weapon at the robbery seen and had challenged another officer to a draw contest before running off again. I was facing him head on across a parking lot and he had his pistol in his hand by his ear when I stopped him. A second officer pulled into the parking lot at a 90 degree angle to me and the suspect (the suspect's left side). I was yelling at the suspect to drop the gun and it seemed like a long time. Just as he started to lower the gun, my partner fired at him. I also fired and then my partner fired a second time. His first bullet hit the suspect in the left side and went through the lungs. I remember telling the department psychologist that I did not remember deciding to fire and one of the thoughts that wen through my mind was that he shot so I should (training comes back under stress).

It was only the next day when we were talking about the shooting that my partner told me he saw that the suspect was bringing the gun down to shoot. The autopsy confirmed this. When I was facing the suspect at the beginning of the scene, his left arm was hanging down and his right hand was by his ear with the gun. I focused tightly on the gun (as most will under stress). But the bullet did not go through the arm, just through the side under where his arm was. That means he was bringing his left hand up from his side as his right hand was coming down. This meant he was moving to a shooting position.

Two experienced and trained officers saw two different things based on their focus at the time. I focused on the threat to me and he focused on the suspect as a threat to his partner. The psychologist says I must have seen the movement also but not consciously recognized it as a threat since i did fire. He pointed out that I did not have time to think anything during the shootings since I fired in between my partners two shots. To this day, I cannot say I saw his left arm move though.

Among several other lessons from this incident, I learned that it really is very reasonable for two officers to see the same event and see two different things. This is true for all witnesses, not just officers. Point of view and stress levels do make a difference.

The officer's gun is raised.

Dillon Taylor, 20, is clearly looking at the officer but refuses to take his hands out of his waistband as he was ordered to do and continues to walk backwards.

"No, fool," Taylor is heard saying.

Moments later, Taylor quickly lifts his shirt and takes his hands out of his waistband. Salt Lake police officer Bron Cruz reacts by firing two quick shots, striking Taylor in the chest and stomach. Taylor died as a result of his injuries.

"I was scared to death. The last thought I had go through my mind when I pulled the trigger, and I'll never forget this … was that I was too late. I was too late. And because of that, I was gonna get killed. Worse, my (partner) was gonna get killed."
–Officer Bron Cruz, SLCPD

"Nothing that Mr. Taylor did assisted in de-escalating the situation," Gill said. "If anything, it escalated things."

Taylor's shooting was justified, Gill said, not because he posed an actual threat, but because Cruz reasonably perceived a threat.