Search found 7 matches

by buckaroo815
Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:35 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

recaffeination wrote:
buckaroo815 wrote:I am confussed about some laws and need help. I see this law that says

PC §9.06. CIVIL REMEDIES UNAFFECTED. The fact that conduct is justified under this chapter does not abolish or impair any remedy for the conduct that is available in a civil suit.

That reads to me you can be sued for using deadly force.

Then this code says

CPRC § 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable

And this reads to me you cant be sued.

Can someone explain this ?
It's like how the Old Testament says thou shalt not eat bacon, but the New Testament says bacon is groovy so eat all you like.

WOW, now that was an eye opener for me. Words that speak to me. Thank you
by buckaroo815
Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:15 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

Thank you all for he help. Im not here to cause trouble but be enlightened. I deem you guys as very knowledgeable. Thank you so much. I enjoy gun shooting and deer hunting myself and I am pro 2nd. Nothing I ask is meant to cause trouble but clear up what so much hear say I have heard or confused as in this post on matter of law. Thank you for the help.
Buck
by buckaroo815
Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:41 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

Skiprr wrote:In my opinion as a non-attorney (so take it with a big grain of sea salt), these Sections are in two different state codes for a reason and say two different things.

In Texas, anyone can sue for anything. There is nothing in the law that prevents that. All PC §9.06 is saying is that, yep, nothing in the Penal Code abolishes or impairs "any remedy for the conduct that is available in a civil suit." So someone can sue over another's use of force or deadly force. This language pre-dates, by a long way, the CHL laws. It was first added by the 63rd Legislature in 1973, and slightly amended by the 73rd Legislature in 1993.

Section 83.001 was added to the Civil Practice and Remedies Code by the 74th Legislature, the same year, 1995, that the CHL laws first were passed. But the wording was substantially changed by the 80th Legislature in 2007, when the so-called "Castle Doctrine" was passed as SB 378. Here's a link to view the final text of the enrolled bill where you also can see the significant changes made to CPRC §83.001. Below is how that section read from 1995 through 2007, and the current version is below it:
CPRC §83.001 Prior to 2007 wrote:CPRC §83.001. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the defendant, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using deadly force under Section 9.32, Penal Code, against a person who at the time of the use of force was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant.
CPRC §83.001 After 2007 wrote:CPRC §83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
The new version is much cleaner and, logically, encompasses the justified use of force as described in the Penal Code, period, not limited to an occurrence of unlawful entry into a habitation. (Thanks, Charles!)

So, in essence--again, only my opinion--nothing in the law prevents someone from filing a civil lawsuit as a result of your use of force. However, if your use of force is justified under PC Chapter 9, you are immune from civil liability for personal injury or death.

The net message, to me, is that if an incident is a "good shoot," it is extremely unlikely you would ever see a civil suit. Only a bad guy, or bad guy's family, who has so much money that they would be willing to simply throw it away just to cause you some temporary grief would ever file a suit. Your civil immunity under CPRC §83.001 means that they can't win damages from you. Only their attorney would make any money out of the case. What's more, you would be free to counter-sue for your costs to defend the suit--and possibly for other damages--and would be likely to win that one.

Time will tell, but I expect civil lawsuits following a justified use of force to be very rare birds...

WOW, thank you so much. I have been studying the CHL laws and so much is confusing. Now this is clear in abc steps. Thank you for your help.

Buck
by buckaroo815
Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:34 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

wgoforth wrote:
buckaroo815 wrote:
AEA wrote:Whatever......... :roll:
Enjoy your stay. :grumble
I will try to enjoy my stay. It is bothering that I found this page and see so many CHL instructors and my thoughts were to be a novice and recieve some advice and get insults. I am going to be a little more patient. I know there is some who are willing to help someone who is ignorant. I pray God blesses and protects you.
Buck.... I am, and have been for 30 years, a full time church minister too as well as CHL instructor.

Great to meet you

But you're not exactly winning friends in your approach here... In reading back through the posts you have put, several have questioned the possibility of your being a troll.

Thank you for reading my post, but in my question asking I did state that I was told this or that and wanted clarity. Please review my question in study.

There is a reason for this. Most of us have been here long enough to have seen numerous ones come and within first post or two hit the hot-button issues that you have touched (perhaps inadvertently). There is a SEARCH feature that would allow you to research the answers to your questions which have been asked and answered many times in the past.

Suggestion is to join, sit back and watch a while, introduce yourself and people get to know one another here. Many of us have met up, sold guns to one another... even visit when one is in the hospital.

Now that is true friendship. Good to see such love.

It is a good group of guys. As a minister, a Proverb comes to mind, Proverbs 18:24..if one desires friends, he must first show himself to be friendly.

Sir, I will not start to use Holy scripture on you. But the one you quote. Was not it you that called me a troll? I can only signal that I am being insulted. I even chalked it up and wished Gods protection on you and I still do. BUt hey, no offense , I will take all your advise in stride and check that search engine on any of my questions. Thank you

Wayne
I will give it a try. Thank you for helping a novice.
by buckaroo815
Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:57 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

AEA wrote:Whatever......... :roll:
Enjoy your stay. :grumble
I will try to enjoy my stay. It is bothering that I found this page and see so many CHL instructors and my thoughts were to be a novice and recieve some advice and get insults. I am going to be a little more patient. I know there is some who are willing to help someone who is ignorant. I pray God blesses and protects you.
by buckaroo815
Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:33 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Re: Conflicting laws in the penel code?

AEA wrote:PC §9.06. Not relevant in Self Defense Shootings (Good shot) by CPRC § 83.001.

Pretty simple to me.

As long as it is simple to you, does dont make it simple to others. Your answer still explains nothing.
by buckaroo815
Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:03 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Conflicting laws in the penel code?
Replies: 26
Views: 4519

Conflicting laws in the penel code?

I am confussed about some laws and need help. I see this law that says

PC §9.06. CIVIL REMEDIES UNAFFECTED. The fact that conduct is justified under this chapter does not abolish or impair any remedy for the conduct that is available in a civil suit.

That reads to me you can be sued for using deadly force.

Then this code says

CPRC § 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable

And this reads to me you cant be sued.

Can someone explain this ?

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