TexasCHLforum.com

gmckinl wrote:Question:

I've seen the license printed on both "green" and on "buff" colored paper. Is there some significance to that? At first I perceived a direct relationship between the paper color and the "sign=" wording, but then that didn't seem to track. Paper color I can see from ten feet away, but I can't read the small 10-point font they use for the wording.

If I remember correctly from an early class, the color of paper indicates the type of license with one color being beer and wine while the other is hard liquor. I don't remember which color is which off hand.

That was the intent of the law, anyway.

Kythas wrote:I found this interesting this weekend. I went out with some friends this weekend and, as where we went is basically a bar, I left my gun at home. It's a club and I'm fairly certain that 51% of their sales are on-premisis alcohol consumption. However, there's no 51% sign - only the standard "The unlicensed possession of a handgun...." sign. I noticed a sign posted by the cash register at the front door where you pay cover that states "All alcohol sales after 9:00 pm are distributed evenly between alcohol and food sales".

I guess this is a way for the club to get around the 51% rule?

It would only work if they actually did have food income and alcohol income split that way. But, remember that the law includes any income, so if they charge for pool tables or a cover charge to get in, then these could also tip the balance away from the alcohol sales. And it can be 49.999% alcohol sales and not be illegal to carry there.

pedalman wrote:

srothstein wrote:In that case, look at the license and see what the actual license says. Sign=Red means it is 51% and Sign=Blue means it si not.

Doesn't that make an uncomfortable situation when asking to see the license? A regular customer asking to see the license would appear to be telegraphing, "Hey!!!! I got a CHL!! I wanna see if I can pack my heater in your establishment."

How does one does this with finesse?

I would think it might be a little awkward, but the law requires the license to be posted in plain view of the public. Of course, the one time I asked to see a license when I was off duty, I did identify myself as a police officer first anyway.

You could just ask them and say you want to see the legal trade name of the bar/store to send a complimentary letter to the owner.

Derf00 wrote:

The trick to this is to remember the exact wording of the law. It is illegal to carry in a place where more than 50% of the sales is from alcohol for consumption on premises as determined by TABC.

This is the whole point of the post, but just about the time you think you understand the law, something like this comes along. If the Wine tasting is free, and the and no other alcholice beverages can be consumed on the premises, how does this law apply?

If the wine tasting is free, and there are no other on premises sales, then this law would not apply.

In that case, look at the license and see what the actual license says. Sign=Red means it is 51% and Sign=Blue means it si not.

Sorry for the confusion Bill. The sign can apply to any business that sells for on and off premises consumption. The problem originally came about because of wineries, though it was always a possibility with beer only bars (many can sell for off premise also). The change in liquor stores came about due to wineries. Used to be a package store could only sell for off premise consumption. Wineries have changed a lot of the rules, such as allowing wine tastings anywhere. I have even seen a wine tasting in HEB now.

Also used to be that a manufacturer could not sell direct to the public, which wineries and micro-breweries changed. This si why it is long overdue for a complete rewrite of the Alcoholic Beverage Code. TABC can't rewrite the code, but we are going to try to modernize the process where we can control it.

The trick to this is to remember the exact wording of the law. It is illegal to carry in a place where more than 50% of the sales is from alcohol for consumption on premises as determined by TABC.

This is the real problem. The TABC application asks if for the breakdown of sales by alcohol, food, and other. It does not differentiate between alcohol for on premises or off premises consumption. As a general rule, this is not a problem since most places sell for one or the other. The bars that sell beer for off premises as well as on premises do not sell enough of the off premises to really make a difference. But, with the recent court rulings on wineries and how they can work, the business model they use and the business model TABC uses are not in sync anymore.

So, if the place is a winery and has a store of its own, it can sell for on and off premises consumption and the off premises amount might be enough to make a difference. But the TABC process does not yet allow for the difference and it makes the winery post a 51% sign, even if they would not do so under a stricter interpretation of the actual law.

For right now, this means that sign is legal and you cannot carry there.

The good news is that TABC is aware of this and other problems. They are in the process of completely redesigning the licensing procedures and computer software. I am confident that this is one of the things to be considered. The bad side of this is that I expect it to take about two years for the redesign to be complete and affecting actual licenses and signs. They cannot change the license application until they get the software for the computer redone, and that takes time.