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carlson1 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:11 pm

srothstein wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:04 pm

carlson1 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:36 pm No one has answered this so I will throw it out one more time. Once the DPS Lieutenant arrived could not the State Police take over and settle this? If that is true then why is Colonel McGraw the top cop running this investigation? Our State Troopers obviously failed. You would not have put 19 Troopers and one DPS Lieutenant on a scene in thr 80’s and them not take over.

Next if the Sheriff is the highest law Enforcement Officer in the County why did the Sheriff’s Office not attempt to take charge?

One of the flaws of the law enforcement system in the US is that each agency is independent and has no authority over other agencies. A city officer is neither above nor below a county officer or a state officer. The general rule is that the first agency on the scene has control over it. Any other officer responding is an assisting officer. There have been many known cases of arguments over which officer is responsible for handling what call, but they are almost always officers saying "Not Me." For example, officers may argue that an accident is in the city limits or in the county, with the county officer saying it is the city officer's jurisdiction and the city officer saying it is not in the city and the county officer has to handle it.

I should point out that these are almost never emergency calls and officers will work as needed to get the emergency handled and then argue about the report being written later.

In the instant case, I don't know whether the Uvalde City Officer was first or the ISD officer was. Either way, other responding officers would not have authority to order anyone to do anything other than when protecting a crime scene and telling them to get out of it. For complex incidents like this, there is a system the feds have produced (ICS) that is supposed to resolve who is in charge and set up a command post to run things. of course, it was designed for disasters like floods or tornadoes, where the incident takes a lot of time and agencies working together to resolve. It was not designed for the short time emergency of a shooting in progress. In theory, the incident should have been handled before there was enough time for a command post to be set up and take over command.

This was a complete breakdown of how a police response should be. I have tried a few times to explain possible causes of how this came to be so messed up, but I truly do not understand it. It truly should have been the first officer on scene handling and giving instructions. I assume some supervisor made the scene from one of the first agencies and that is what led to part of the confusion. If they did not take charge, who will?

As you might be able to tell, I do not believe a true "what happened and why" after action analysis has been done yet. This turned into a political cover-up and blame game too quickly to let the analysis go. ALERRT is who i would trust the most for this normally, but they got talked into doing an investigation first, instead of waiting and analyzing the results of the other investigations and an after action analysis. They were not allowed to consider some of the things that are not politically popular to look at, like why officers are not taking pro-active action. I am hoping they get to go back later and do a better analysis so that we can do training on avoiding this kind of mess up again.

I have one question Steve. Are you telling me when the DPS Lieutenant and the two of the Texas Rangers arrived on scene they could not have taken over?

Paladin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:13 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:17 am Anyone remember the old saying about how cops run to the sound of gunfire while everybody else is running away from it. This video provides evidence that the old saying is a fairy tell now days. Cowardice in the line of duty is no excuse when children are being slaughtered. We will likely never know how many of those children bled out while those cops hid safely in the hallway. They signed up for the job. Then proved themselves cowards when it came to doing anything other than bullying citizens who lick their boots.

The ALERRT report and video are both very helpful in verifying what actually happened. I still have many questions in my mind. I am certain there are written procedures for these situations and training. Those procedures and training are to intervene immediately. What happened with that? Who all gave the order for the stand down? Chief Pete Arredondo was certainly responsible, but city PD seems to me to share responsibility. Did an officer really have the murderer in his sights and not take the shot? How did the murderer who could not drive and worked at Wendy's acquire his weapons? Who took him to zero and practice with his weapons? Was he specifically recruited to do this horrific thing?

Why was law enforcement incompetence and inadequate training seemingly the norm? How and why were so many police officers cowed into doing nothing? These issues need to be uncovered and addressed.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:51 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:20 am

baseballguy2001 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:00 pm Paldin has a very good point. Had the police stopped handcuffing & detaining parents who were trying to rescue their children, and went after the BG, how ever they were armed, there may well had been more survivors. 10 regular, armed citizens with Glocks (or similar) will stop one BG with an AR-15 every time. If the cops were going to stand down, then they should have handed their weapons over and allowed citizens to stop the threat.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking ... eport-says
Video Shows Police Never Tried To Open Door To Get In Texas Classroom Where Shooter Was, Report Says

Law enforcement officials reportedly never tried to open the door at a Texas elementary school last month where a shooter murdered 19 children.

“Surveillance footage shows that police never tried to open a door to two classrooms at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde in the 77 minutes between the time a gunman entered the rooms and massacred 21 people and officers finally breached the door and killed him,” the San Antonio Express-News reported, noting that the information came from a law enforcement official who was involved in investigating law enforcement’s response to the tragedy. “Investigators believe the 18-year-old gunman who killed 19 children and two teachers at the school on May 24 could not have locked the door to the connected classrooms from the inside.”

At some point, citizens have to serve notice to their local police departments that if they’re not going to do the hard part of their jobs, then they can all be fired and the citizens will take matters into their own hands. Failing that, cut their salaries in half. You shouldn’t have to pay someone that much money if all they’re going to do is write traffic tickets and take reports.

Paladin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:34 am

philip964 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:54 pm https://www.fox26houston.com/news/uvald ... g-response

Sounds like the class room door was unlocked, even though there was gun fire outside, before the BG entered the school.

Police Chief didn’t understand he was in charge.

Purposely didn’t bring his radio as it would slow him down.

BG locked the classroom door and they spent 40 minutes trying to get a key.

School classrooms all have windows to the out side.

The early reports say that there were ORDERS not to go in the school. Someone gave those orders. For them to be followed it had to be the person in charge. Standard procedure is not to wait, but go in immediately. That did not happen because someone in authority gave the order.

The report from the unarmed mom who went in the building was that no police were inside. She got in the building without a key, while the chief ordered law enforcement to stay out.

Besides, when you have an active shooter you don't need keys. You shoot the door open.

Also, obviously you can engage the shooter from outside through the windows... again, no key required.

I wish the chief would say his lies under oath so he could get some add on charges.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:29 am

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:19 am

KC5AV wrote: ↑Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:28 am Cornyn eyes adding juvenile records to gun buyer database instead of raising the age to purchase an AR-15.

Thoughts?

If it's done in a way that doesn't dissuade kids from getting mental health help, it could be a good idea.
I know lots of kids that benefited from talking with a counselor. Would not be ok for that to be disqualifying for 2A.

Some, maybe. But a kid who had a picture taken with a bag full of dead cats needs locked up in an insane asylum.

philip964 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:41 pm Have they traced the money yet?

Follow the money.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:13 am

srothstein wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:53 pm

C-dub wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 10:07 pm

philip964 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 6:18 pm
Uvalde Police and school police no longer Cooperating with State Police investigation.

I think this is incorrect. I read that it was the chief of the school districts police that was not responding to a second interview request. He is not part of the Uvalde PD.

The Chief has obviously heard our advice to never talk to the police after you are involved in a shooting. The governor and the media have already characterized his decision as wrong and are looking for someone to blame for this tragedy. We all know who is primarily at fault here (the shooter), but there are enough mistakes that someone else will go down in flames. Will it just be a career ending decision or are they going to try to put someone in jail over this?

Look at what the media is doing to the Uvalde ISD Police Chief. Look at what they were doing to the unnamed teacher who propped the door open to go get something from her car. Does anyone on this forum still think the advice to not talk to the police if you are involved in a shooting is bad advice?

PS> I do not know if the ISD chief made a bad decision or not. I was not there and I do not know what was happening when he made the decision. I do know that the investigation is now going to take an even longer time to complete, at least in part because of the rush to judgment. I also do know that there are very different protocols for police handing an active shooter versus a barricaded armed subject, either with or without hostages.

Here’s what I do know:

philip964 wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 8:36 am https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/new-video ... dead-cats/

Shooter grinning while holding bag of bloody dead cats.

parabelum wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:11 am I would not be surprised if after the dust settles we see potential criminal charges filed against the IC and/or those “controlling” the scene. Sure seems to me like all four elements are met.
Duty of care - that should be clear as LE profession has this inherent duty.
Breach of duty - this might be muddy but I believe the standard (by which the IC et al will be scrutinized under) is that in the case of active shooter you go in, there’s no waiting around.
Causation - could be muddy, but again, given the profession expectation from the 1st element this could very well apply.
Damages - this one is clear to me.
Of course, IANAL but it sure doesn’t look good.

powerboatr wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 3:21 pm

parabelum wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:30 pm No class from that lowlife Beto. Uvalde mayor tore into him too.

new low for beto, i guess he was re-auditioning for brandons gun squad.
what a giant POS.

i can say what else i am thinking

parabelum wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 10:50 am This evil monster ran inside of that school because it was a soft target.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:24 am

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Wed May 25, 2022 1:20 am

philip964 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 6:17 pm It is reading that he killed his grandmother, there was a BOLO out for him and it’s sounding like the police chase ended at the school.

This is heartbreaking.

Unconfirmed report he was “trans”.

One of my coworkers showed me some pics he found of the dude in make up and women's clothes. You could see the face, it was the killer. Another sick product of terrible times. Complete lack of standards leads to these horrible crimes.

I would support any gun laws forbidding people from the LBGTQ...alphabet community from purchasing firearms. They are mentally twisted people. Prancing around in front of the mirror wearing their mommies underwear is just demented. His grand mother probably caught him wearing her underwear and challenged him on it.

philip964 wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 6:17 pm It is reading that he killed his grandmother, there was a BOLO out for him and it’s sounding like the police chase ended at the school.

This is heartbreaking.

Unconfirmed report he was “trans”.