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Yep, the attendance issues we had ultimately came down to funding. We realized they didn't mind if you left after the point at which the numbers were locked in for funding purposes, but heaven help you if you were gone during that time. Sorry your daughter had to go through that. It amazes me how quick the schools are to treat students and their parents like the enemy when you don't toe the line.

chasfm11 wrote:In fairness, the schools cannot make a determination about who should and who should not have inhalers or other medicine. It puzzles me, however, that many schools can have student ID badges and it won't take much to add a different kind of a card to the badge holder that says that the student is OK to have an inhaler. It could be issued with the rigor as the original ID.

One size fits all never works. There are too many kids who have exceptional conditions and the schools are not set up to handle any exceptions.

The ID listing for an inhaler makes sense to me. I don't think the school would have to make the determination who can or can't have one; the student can show a prescription for an inhaler, or an inhaler with the prescription label with their name on it, or a doctor's note, or whatever. I think a note from a parent should suffice as well, but schools don't tend to like that. I always got in trouble because my mom refused to do doctor's notes. She told the attendance folks that she said she was taking me to the doctor/dentist/whatever and unless they were calling her a liar that should be good enough.

mamabearCali wrote:Our neighbor (tall skinny dork with glasses type) was being pestered by a local sewer rat. They had adjoining lockers. Our neighbor requested the person please keep his hands to himself, and was rewarded with a punch to the face that broke his glasses and bloodied his nose. The school system suspended both of them for a week even though our neighbor had done nothing wrong but be harassed and then assaulted. The school said they would not spend the time to find out what happened. That they had better things to do. Now lets see a fellow who had a record as long as my leg vs the geek who had never so much turned in his homework late. I am sure that would have taken a whole lot of investigation to figure out what happened.

Sad to say that seems to be the norm. I was just talking to my next-door neighbor about how her son is doing in school this year and she said he's had issues like that. In fact, he got suspended longer than the three guys who jumped on him. I suppose it's possible he provoked something, but all indicators I've seen say he's a good kid. He calls me ma'am, he and his adult sister bake treats for my kids, he helps his mom take care of his baby nieces when he's home... doesn't seem like much of a thug to me. His mom was actually asking me about what I had to do to be able to homeschool my son, because she's really displeased with the sort of issues they're having.

Something sort of related to zero-tolerance policies is the issue I've seen with inhalers. I don't know much about the drugs in those things, but is there even a black market for them? When I was in high school one of my friends had severe asthma but was required to keep her inhaler at the school nurse's office. I remember one morning before school we were both in the bathroom when I heard a "thud" from her stall. I had to crawl under the door to unlock it and pull her out, and a couple of us carried her to the nurse's office. She'd had a sudden asthma attack and passed out. I think that was our junior year. Seems like by the time you're that age, you should be able to be trusted with an inhaler you might need suddenly for a documented medical condition.

MasterOfNone wrote: Does behavior "near" (10 feet away from) a bus stop make it a school issue? I could see an argument that shooting people AT the bus stop may fall under the school's authority to suspend. But to me, "near" the bus stop is no different than carrying concealed "near" a 30.06 or 51% location.

I don't believe the school has any authority over or ownership of the bus stop itself. When I was a kid my bus stop was the end of my driveway. Did my parents cede control of the end of our driveway to the school district? Or if it's on public right of way, it's land belonging to the city or county -- do they grant control of it to the school district?

I think the school's most logical course of action -- assuming the parents weren't helpful -- would be to call local law enforcement. If city ordinances require that any pellets shot remain within a person's private property, that law was being broken and there's the recourse for it. As a parent I'd prefer the district talked to me first and gave me the opportunity to deal with the problem myself, but I'm aware that not all parents could or would do so. At that point, I think it necessarily becomes a police matter. No one can deny the police have the right to enforce city ordinances, and that ordinance sounds fair. Enforcement of it would solve the school district's problem of students at the bus stop being hit by pellets.

Piney wrote:I recall being told that the school is "responsible" for the student once they are on their way to or from a school. This discussion came about several years back when one of the kids was found "loitering" at a convenience store on the way to school. We were called by the school's Officer. Nothing took place as one would assume should certianly be the case, but the discussion was held.

That would be very disturbing to me. I'm definitely not a fan of the law in Montana that you cited. When I was in high school I didn't always go straight to or from school, and I may well have done things that were perfectly acceptable behaviors outside of school but not allowed under school policy. I gave friends rides on occasion, went to work, ran errands for my mom, went to church events... at what point was I no longer on my way to or from school? Again, I wouldn't send my kids to public school anyway, but if I were inclined to do so laws like that would definitely give me pause.

Moby wrote:In a letter obtained by WAVY.com, school principal Matthew Delaney found that the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop." Delaney states in the letter that one child "was only 10 feet from the bus stop, and ran from the shots being fired, but was still hit."


Typical twisting of the truth. The boys were shooting at other kids waiting for the bus. Non participants to the fun and games.
A little different than innocent playing in their own yard. they were shooting "outside" of their yard at others not playing with them.

I'm not condoning the kids' behavior. Their parents need to deal with it appropriately. If the pellets were leaving their private property, then it could also be a police matter. But I have a problem with schools using their authority to punish actions that don't fall under their jurisdiction. Not school hours, not school property, not a school activity... not a school problem.

Purplehood wrote:Just so you know, I have 5 children and I stand by my comments and respect yours.

Fair enough.

Purplehood wrote:

MotherBear wrote:

Purplehood wrote:Why don't we all just shut-down Public Schooling throughout the USA?

The Liberals win everytime we run and hide in our Private Schools.

No, they don't. The liberals lose. The liberals don't get to indoctrinate MY kids, or the other homeschooled kids I know (forget private school -- I want it done right and I'll do it myself). My kids are being raised to understand true American values, to be able to think, to value their liberty and their independence. My kids are being taught that every time the polls are open, we go. And that we don't vote for people who trample on our rights.

In the meantime, I still have a vote in my school district. They don't take that away, any more than they give my tax money back (darn it).

That is great for your kids in a very narrowly-focused way.

But the rest of the future voting pool is growing up to be liberal and scared-silly of evil guns and they are being taught to vote.

Whereas if I send them to public schools, everyone else's kids will miraculously NOT grow up to be liberal and scared-silly of evil guns? There's only so much I can do, and one of those things is educate my own kids properly. And, like I said, I still get a vote in the school district. I still know members of the school board. I'm not checking out and unaware of things. But I don't see any reason that leaving my own kids in that wreck of a system is beneficial to anyone. I'm not running and hiding, and I'm not ceding a victory to the liberals. But my kids don't belong on that battlefield.

Purplehood wrote:Why don't we all just shut-down Public Schooling throughout the USA?

The Liberals win everytime we run and hide in our Private Schools.

No, they don't. The liberals lose. The liberals don't get to indoctrinate MY kids, or the other homeschooled kids I know (forget private school -- I want it done right and I'll do it myself). My kids are being raised to understand true American values, to be able to think, to value their liberty and their independence. My kids are being taught that every time the polls are open, we go. And that we don't vote for people who trample on our rights.

In the meantime, I still have a vote in my school district. They don't take that away, any more than they give my tax money back (darn it).

texanjoker wrote:Not saying I agree with it, but the kids were waiting for the school bus. Schools get hammered over stuff that happens while kids are going to and from schools, and when the kids are waiting they are under some rules. The punishment seems rather harsh. Maybe a talk to would have suffice saying while you are waiting you must follow school rules would have been better. These draconian punishments get carried away.

But how is the school responsible for them when they aren't even on the bus yet? At what point do the kids come under the school's authority? If a kid shows up at the bus stop two hours early, is the school responsible for that child? Three hours? Thirty minutes? Fifteen minutes? At the exact moment the bus arrives? Is supposed to arrive? What's the magical point at which all activity at the bus stop becomes the school's problem? And for that matter, the article makes it sound like they weren't actually at the bus stop, but near the bus stop on private property (at least one of them in his own yard). So now it's outside school hours and they're not even at the bus stop, let alone on school property, and as far as I can tell there was no representative of the school present. It's pretty hard for me to see any argument for the school having authority in that situation. Once the kids are on the bus, sure. But until then, I'd say they're fully their parents' responsibility.

When I was a kid, my bus stop was at the end of my driveway. And there wasn't a clearly delineated spot -- I just went to the end of the driveway and waited for the bus. Could the school dictate what I could and couldn't do at the end of my driveway? At what times did their rules apply? Did their rules trump my parents' rules as the property owners? What about on days I didn't ride the bus? I was the only one at my stop, so if I wasn't there the bus didn't stop.

That's ridiculous. Now, I'd skin my kid alive for shooting a toy gun at someone (especially since it appears they were shooting at people who were not participating in their game and didn't have proper safety gear), but that's my business. If my kid is on my private property before school has started, it's none of the school district's business what he's doing.

This quote really got my blood boiling:

"My son is my private property. He does not become the school's property until he goes to the bus stop, gets on the bus, and goes to school," Caraballo told the station.

My kids are my kids, period. When I leave them with a babysitter, they don't become the babysitter's kids. She's responsible for them, they are to obey her, but there is no transfer of "ownership," even temporarily. If I were to send my children to school (HA!), they would be temporarily in the school's custody. At no point, ever, do I give up my parental rights which completely and absolutely trump any claim the school may have. Schools are becoming stand-ins for parents more and more -- and I realize it goes both ways. You have the schools trying to get more control of the kids and their families, and the parents who are willing and sometimes even eager to abdicate responsibility and leave parenting to the schools. It's a wreck.