TexasCHLforum.com

cedarparkdad987 wrote:

rtschl wrote:

cedarparkdad987 wrote:

twomillenium wrote:Debate this all you want, the 30.06 & 30.07 signs or written on a card in the exact language given or oral notification to that person stating that that firearms or not allowed are the only notifications I teach and am concerned with. That is what the law says and that is what I was told when I took the instructors courses. Yes, I have heard an officer or two interpret this different but I just figured they are in the group that didn't learn how to tie their shoes until they were in their teens.

Has it been tested in a court of law up through the appellate process? If not, do you desire to be the test case? If not, treat it as completely valid.

Can't speak for anyone else and admittedly I do not want to be the test case for anything. But why would we treat something as "completely valid" that is contrary to the statute? I think you have it backwards - until a court invalidates the law a gunbuster sign is not compliant and does not provide proper notice for LTC holders.

Until a court case tests it, you are making yourself potentially liable if you walk past one. That's fine, you should just be aware. Considering this is a place that is telling you up front that they don't want your money, why give it to them?

Edit: to be clear I agree that they are not valid. I would just caution against taking the risk, to give someone money who doesn't want your money.

I know that this does not speak for the intent of all gun buster signs. I know of at least 4 proprietors that post these, knowing it is not the right 30.06 signage, all claim they do not mean to restrict licensed carry. They seem to think it some how thwarts unlicensed (all ready illegal), it makes the liberal customers feel good (they don't understand there is proper signage), and the licensed folks who don't know the difference probably don't practice enough to be competent enough to carry. There are many more liberal or unknowledgeable patrons than patron who know the difference. You ask how I know this? Because the have taken my course and we have discussed it. I understand not wanting to be the test case, but the law is very specific in my opinion and I try to live life in preparedness and not fear.

Abraham wrote:O.K., then why the need for 30.06 /07 signs with specificity in both English and Spanish in 1" size letters?

Or, is that just boiler plate that can be ignored if the business decides to notify with wee size hand outs at their discretion?

Or can they tell you're a CCer and hey man, you can't come in here with a gun?

C'mon, either there's a commonly understood law (proper signage) or every business can conduct their own approach?

Which is it?

Their business, their choice as long as they follow the law. That is the way it should be.

Pawpaw wrote:I believe the receipt is your ticket at those theaters.

Exactly, the receipt is to allow you in, not to notify you of policy. I think it would be successfully argued that you were not EFFECTIVELY notified. Just as the sign in sheet is to register the patients presence, not to notify them of policies. INAL, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

The .06 or .07 sign that was blocked as you walked in, written notice on a sign in sheet (who reads all that writing, besides I am not signing I am letting them know I am here) ahhhh but a card that has the exact language as prescribed and given directly to a person or oral communication directly to a person (not a announcement on a intercom, who pays attention to those) has very little defense when the communication is direct to the person.
My take on the card or document is something that is directly given to each individual, the expected voluntary reading of something not directly given is why the sign on the entrances are to be 1" minimum block letters appearing in a conspicuous location in contrasting colors in English and Spanish.
Written communication with is covered by public notice or direct notice (card given) or oral communication (which can simply be " we don't allow gun in here so leave") is all covered in this section of the law.

Debate this all you want, the 30.06 & 30.07 signs or written on a card in the exact language given or oral notification to that person stating that that firearms or not allowed are the only notifications I teach and am concerned with. That is what the law says and that is what I was told when I took the instructors courses. Yes, I have heard an officer or two interpret this different but I just figured they are in the group that didn't learn how to tie their shoes until they were in their teens.

I figured the gun buster sign meant that the business does not sell guns! That is why I never asked to see them.