TexasCHLforum.com

gigag04 wrote:

NcongruNt wrote: It's a solution to a problem that only existed with improperly prepared batches of military ammo during the Vietnam war. The AR design is very simple and very elegant.

74novaman wrote:Other ar gurus will be along shortly but I don't think there's any reason to get a piston system. You're adding weight and fixing something that frankly isn't broken.

All you anti piston guys are funny. Having run a piston gun and a DI gun through days and cases of ammo in training classes, I love the piston. Runs cooler and cleaner. If you look at failures in the AR/M4 platform it is usually from dirt and debris. Mitigating those factors would serve to INCREASE reliability, not decrease it.

For most casual uses DI vs Piston would be personal preference. The difference is further less pronounced when you take select fire out of the equation. That said, my piston gun is my first choice for a working gun. Most people that I have discussed the issue with have never heavily used a piston AR - they just repeat some heavily repeated mantra that they read on ARF or M4C. The piston ARs that are out there were made famous by the top tier, well respected, companies: POF, LWRC, LMT, SCAR, HK, et al. Bushmaster and others soon followed suit.

For the OP's needs, this discussion seems to be a moot point, however, as any respectable piston gun is out of the original budget. I don't recommend building your own AR for the first gun, headspacing can be a pain. I think the M&P (specifically MOE is one of the best out of the box guns for the price).


Oh and to be more conflicting, I prefer the Aimpoint to the Eotech. Battery life is way better, and my eyes just like it better. Can't go wrong either way. The Eotech reticle has a great standoff feature for close in surgical shooting. I run an Aimpoint Comp ML3, but I'm really leaning towards an Aimpoint T-1 Micro. Again - that is a later discussion.

I'm not anti-piston. I just don't see the point of modifying the AR design to be a piston gun when there are plenty of .223/5.56 guns that have piston systems as part of their design. Maybe I got tired of hearing "OMG DIRTY GAS SYSTEMS AR FAIL, NEEDS A PISTON LIKE THE INDESTRUCTIBLE AK" by people who didn't have ARs but were happy to point out their perceived deficiencies from the sidelines. I bought into that nonsense, but went ahead and built a standard AR after I started questioning the validity of the argument. After looking at how the design works and actually using it, I am quite happy and impressed with it. I'm not criticizing the piston system itself, but rather the horde of people who described the DI as made of fail because of some mob hype about a gun they never used.

From my understanding, using a piston-driven AR means that you're locked into your specific vendor, because everyone's piston systems are different. There's something to be said for a standardized platform.

I don't put tens of thousands of rounds through my rifle between cleanings, and I would venture to say that most people don't. With a piston system you are adding parts and complexity to the rifle. It's not just one part. You're replacing a single piece (gas tube) with a gas chamber, piston, rod, spring, and some retaining parts. Those parts are new points of potential failure. A gas tube isn't going to wear out, but moving mechanical parts will. As you stated, the difference between DI and piston systems is a preference for "casual users", which I would venture to say describes nearly everyone. Certainly, someone on a budget of $1000 is going to be a casual user. Select fire shouldn't even come into the equation in this discussion, because a piston-driven select-fire AR is a non-existent option for a civilian.

To the OP, congratulations on your rifle. I hope you enjoy it thoroughly.

MojoTexas wrote:One more question...should I get one that is gas operated, or should I pay for the gas-piston system?

For example, see this link: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/61688-55.html

What does the gas-piston do for you, compared to normal gas-operated?

Based on Googling around, it appears that S&W licensed the technology from this company: http://www.adamsarms.net/

It's a solution to a problem that only existed with improperly prepared batches of military ammo during the Vietnam war. The AR design is very simple and very elegant.

I listened to the hype and wanted to go with a piston design, up until I actually built a gas-impingement AR for myself. I then realized that the piston system is an unnecessary complication that only adds mechanical complexity and more points of failure. If you want a piston-operated rifle, get something that was designed as a piston-operated rifle. I see no point in modifying the AR design with piston systems that solve a non-existent problem.

It's like implementing a striker system in a 1911 design. It was never meant to go on that platform, and you're better off going with a Glock or one of the other multitude of handguns available that do that as part of the native design.

Rex B wrote:Eotech is the Holy Grail of red dot sights for black rifles.
But the Bushnell Holosight is the same thing with a plastic frame instead of aluminum, made by the same company.

What about the ACOG? That's the holy grail there, and priced accordingly.

As several have mentioned, building your own is a good option. It also means that you become very familiar with the workings of your AR, as you put it all together.

I built my AR several months ago, over the period of a few months. This help spread out the cost, which was the only way I could justify the expense with my wife. I chronicled the build on my blog:

http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... egins.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... stall.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... stall.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... rrier.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... guard.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://therealnecessities.blogspot.com/ ... etion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


My build ended up costing something like $1100 in all, as I ordered some non-standard parts to set up the gun like I wanted. I started out with a CMMG stripped lower purchased for $100. Everything else was ordered from Rock River Arms, with the exception of the rear sight.

I priced out the cost of a standard A2-spec 20" rifle build from RRA parts, starting with a $100 stripped lower, and the cost came out to $893.25. RRA will also sell you an assembled rifle to the same spec for $980. They also have customized carbine stuff on sale for $1000 even, if you wanted to go that route. They do not charge shipping (or at least didn't for me during my build), and they're out of state, so no tax.

http://rockriverarms.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;