TexasCHLforum.com

bizarrenormality wrote:APC FTW

I have no idea what it means.

Pecos wrote:At lease the Parking lot should have a "With out a Permit" sign. Whats sad about this USPS parking lot law is it wont stop the BGs.

I agree. The CHL holders I know are law abiding citizens and can be fully trusted to have their firearms in the parking lots of the Post Offices and every other parking lot, where it's forbidden.

Has there been a case with a CHL holder misusing his/her gun in a parking lot somewhere? Or any crime wave perpetrated by CHL holders?

Yet, we here all the time about lowlifes with guns in "GUN FREE ZONES". That's an absolute scumbaggery on the part of the lawmakers.

Keith B wrote:
Actually, your CHL does not show up on a plate run. They have to run your drivers license or name through the system. However, I have known officers to run the plate, then run the name of the registered owner before they approach, so they MAY suspicion you are the driver and know you have a CHL if it is you.

I didn't even know about that aspect of police work, however, my goal is to follow the law FULLY. Someone here said that "we all break the law every day", and I have to disagree. To the best of my knowledge, I don't break the law. A couple of times I learned later that I UNKNOWINGLY failed to follow the law in a nuance aspect, but it happened literally only a couple of times, and I immediately course correct to avoid it in the future.

This is the main reason I am a member of this forum: to learn nuances and share experiences. If I was OK with breaking the law every day, I wouldn't have bothered to join.

And I am not doing it simply to avoid getting punished. I am doing it, because it's the right thing to do, and I want to teach my kids the importance of doing the right thing even in small aspects and tiny nuances, when it may seem that it doesn't matter. Because it always matters... At least, in someone's eyes.

Pecos wrote:My resolve for this issue is to park off the Post office property & leave my gum in the car. It's just a short walk for me. I dont go to the post office that often. My wife does that during the day.

This is exactly what I do, but it is a real hassle, because my post office is isolated with woods across the street (fenced) and the nearest other parking lot is about 500 feet away. It would also be illegal to park on the street itself in that area. If it wasn't near 100°F 6 months out of the year, it would be fine, but...

Thanks.

mikeloc wrote:Did you read this short cut? http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/us/guns-post-office" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike

I am familiar with this case. I actually brought it up earlier in this thread. Even though it doesn't automatically change the law, it can be used as a legal precedent. I just wouldn't want to be the test case for its use...

mikeloc wrote:In 1972, the Postal Service enacted regulations that prevented open and concealed-carry weapons and explosives on postal property.

Why would you think the folks in Washington would change their rules. They're trying to make it harder to carry not easier.



Mike

You are probably right. However, what they are actually accomplishing is the reduction of revenue for the USPS. I, as I am sure many other CHL holders, avoid going to the postal office and end up using FedEx and UPS. In the past 3 months I used UPS 11 times, most of which I would have preferred to use USPS had I not been carrying. That's almost $100 they lost from me.

I like my USPS office staff. They are competent and great at Customer Service, but the Government management with its many ridiculous rules (including their holidays up to wazoo, unrealistic pension plans and other Federal employment "ridiculousities") has run it into the ground. I don't know... Maybe it's for the best.

mikeloc wrote:quote]


Not if you just get a ticket. You might check this site http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/us/guns-post-office" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also by federal law you can lock you handgun in the trunk under the travel law. Since you're legal when you start out and legal when you complete you destination.

I'm going to see if I can find the sign posted in the post office, but I believe it's a fine.
I would not recommend carrying in the post office, but I would not worry about the parking lot.

Mike Lochabay

I am still going to err on the side of caution regarding the parking lot issue. I talked to a [Pre-paid legal service] lawyer, and he was very clear about this issue and recommended parking at another building's parking lot and then walk to the USPS office. I just hope they are going to realize the irrationality of these parking lot rules and toss them out.

Thanks.

mikeloc wrote:

You've gone way overboard on this. The post office and parking lot law is federal, not state. You have to go way out of your way to get a local or state officer to arrest you or give you a ticket for this. The federal offense is a fine for less than fifty dollars. I'll bet you cannot find one case were someone has been charged with a gun in the post office parking lot.

Mike Lochabay

You may be right. I have to double check it. If you are right, I am thinking of something else then (it's been a long day for me with 16 hours of working, while checking the forum). I am a physician and have been doing charts all day! If you are right, it's not as big of a problem as I thought, but still, I would like to see that law changed.

I remember reading something a few months ago about a case, in which a seemingly minor offence triggered a 5-year sentence. Now, that I think about it, it may have been a school, not a post office.

Do you know, if they suspend or revoke your CHL for the USPS parking lot offence?

Thanks.

RoyGBiv wrote: See the word "store"...

Edited quote...

(l)
Weapons and explosives.
No person while on postal property may store the same on
postal property, except for official pur-
poses.

Yep. Thanks... It's been a long day!

RoyGBiv wrote:
See 232.1(L)

(l)
Weapons and explosives.
No person while on postal property may carry
firearms, other dangerous or deadly
weapons, or explosives, either openly
or concealed, or store the same on
postal property, except for official pur-
poses.

It's a stupid rule, and possibly on its way out. Hopefully.

The use of word "carry" is a point of controversy here. If the gun is safely locked in my car — it is not being "carried" technically. I am simply transporting it at that point. But, apparently, it has been made clear by multiple arrests and prosecutions... I, too, hope that this rule is on its way out — regarding the parking lots of ALL Federal Buildings.

Keith B wrote: If the property is federally owned, then yes they are. So, parking lot of a Federal Courthouse, IRS, FBI, etc if owned by government is off limits.

Thanks.

I guess, if I ever have to go to one of these places, I would have to go home first to drop off the gun... I really prefer to carry every day, even if I know that the chance of me actually needing the gun is low. My philosophy is I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Besides, I believe in exercising my 2nd Amendment rights every single day.

I really believe that these parking law aspects of the law are completely irrational, but I am going to follow them.

Keith B wrote:

nyj wrote:I know federal buildings are off limits, but in places such as Big Bend National Park, you can be armed in the parking lot premises of the federal visitor/info. center.

'Merica.

I think what you are saying is you CAN'T go in the Visitor Center or any building where there are federal employees in the park, but you can carry in open areas like the parking lot.

Keith B: Are the parking lots of Federal Buildings subject to the same law as the USPS parking lots (meaning, you can't have the gun in your car in their parking lot)?

Thanks

nyj wrote:I must not know the laws, because I always leave my gun in the car at the post office.

Yep. Apparently, it's a major no-no. I believe, people go to prison for that, not on probation. The Feds come after you like after a terrorist, if they catch you... Instead of treating you like a law abiding citizen, who simply made a mistake. CHL holders I know are some of the most honorable, honest, rational people I know. And that has even been verified and certified during their background checks. The State and Federal Governments should be happy that such people are armed and able to defend themselves and others instead of relying on 911 calls that come minutes later at best.

I don't know, why they even bothered creating a law that won't even let them park near a post office with a gun. That's how governments manage businesses in general. That's one of the reasons businesses like USPS and other ones are not even viable. When it belongs to a government — it belongs to no one. I believe the Soviet Union proved that point by falling apart when the government owned everything.

rotor wrote:I wonder how many Texans without chl but with a gun in their glove compartment park at their local post office to mail a letter. It is also a federal crime to be within x number of feet (???) from a school with a firearm. Just driving by one of these gun free areas is a federal crime. Anyone here follow that law? Best I can suggest is if you do, don't get caught. Better off with pot in Washington or Colorado as we know they will not prosecute but if you protect youself in a post office parking lot with a firearm you are in deep trouble. PS, don't take that automatic knife in either.

The parking lots of schools (as well as driving by them) have no restrictions, as long as the gun is concealed. If you have to go into a school, you have to lock up your gun in the car. Even if a school has a 30.06 at the entrance of the parking lot (which not many of them do) — those signs are not enforceable. Parking lots, walkways, sidewalks, nearby roads, etc. are absolutely fine.

My hypothetical concern before was only about schools with a parking lot 30.06, so I consulted a Law Shield lawyer. He said that those signs are not enforceable. My kids don't go to a school with such a sign, so it's not an issue for me.

Regardless, there is not requirement to have a concealed weapon within an x amount of feet from a school property. The rule is not to walk into a building (or an school event) with a weapon, and to safely lock it in your car.

As to the non-CHL folk parking at the USPS with a gun locked in their car — I was curious about it, too. I hope they all study the law before putting the gun in the car, even though that particular law is numbingly stupid and is not doing our Postal Service any favors. I know they lose more than half of my shipping business because I can't have my gun in the car, when I go there.

SewTexas wrote:I thought someone found that you could have a gun in the PO parking lot? no? ooops just don't get caught?

That case was specific with a lot of nuances. It has not affected the law in general, although it can be used as a precedent. However, I wouldn't want to be the test run for it...