TexasCHLforum.com

I see things in this thread that speak to our "changed" society and concern me greatly.

The poll came out 63% to 38% in favor of property rights. But; the comments seem to tell the opposite. Or is the 38% just that vocal?

The feeling that a private property owner that chooses to start a business that deals with the public loses what property rights he had seems particularly strong. And this is coming from a forum dedicated to folks that chose to arm themselves in order to protect said rights.

I read the entire thread, and made what I thought were appropriate comments. At times, I really felt like I was at a Occupy Wall Street convention.

On the other side, one "landlord" advocates inventing a crisis in order to deprive a renter of his/her tenant rights.

Our current president stated he wanted to "fundamentally change America", I fear greatly that he has succeeded.

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

it is in a county owned facility its not enforceable but there is no case law as of yet proving that, there have been many discussions about it, some think that a short term rental of the hall negates the fact the building is owned by the county though no where in any law does it say that. me I walk past them when I go and that is rarely as you don't save a dime on anything in there

When you rent a home or place of business, you do acquire certain rights "as if you owned the property". Even the landlord can't just walk in.
Not sure if a 2 day short term rental counts. But the question was actually trumped by 3 armed LEOs prepared to enforce the sign.
The legal questions count in court among the lawyers, they do not count at the point of arrest among the arresting officers. The lawyers are later required.
Another sign stated that the LEOs performed "spot checks". I thought it best not to enter while carrying.

no it doesn't give you any renters rights at all, you get no keys you get nothing from the gubbermint that rented the space to you for 2 days. you still have to follow the rules as they see them, wee the saxet vs Austin thread. for an individual it is different when renting a room at the local motel 6 than a business renting from a county or city. also if you rent a house or apartment the landlord or owner can walk right in any time they want and you can't do squat about it, sorry you are mis informed, if its commercial property not only can the landlord walk in anytime they want they can lock you out and not allow you in anytime they want

I was informed by both the Air Force Legal Office and a private sector lawyer. The landlord has a right to inspect his property, and you must cooperate to schedule such a visit. If he uses his key to "walk in any time" he is trespassing, and you can have law enforcement evict him. When he rented to you, he assigned the control of the residence to you. That's what lease/rental is about. Also note: A car repossessor is actually outside the law if he doesn't have a court order.

The landlord CANNOT lock you out. A landlord in Austin just got his butt sued off for that. The landlord must petition a court, the court will empower the local Sherriff to evict you (lock you out). That's why it takes so much time and money to evict someone.

I won't speak to commercial property, as I have no actual experience. But, I suspect it's similar.

JP171 wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

it is in a county owned facility its not enforceable but there is no case law as of yet proving that, there have been many discussions about it, some think that a short term rental of the hall negates the fact the building is owned by the county though no where in any law does it say that. me I walk past them when I go and that is rarely as you don't save a dime on anything in there

When you rent a home or place of business, you do acquire certain rights "as if you owned the property". Even the landlord can't just walk in.
Not sure if a 2 day short term rental counts. But the question was actually trumped by 3 armed LEOs prepared to enforce the sign.
The legal questions count in court among the lawyers, they do not count at the point of arrest among the arresting officers. The lawyers are later required.
Another sign stated that the LEOs performed "spot checks". I thought it best not to enter while carrying.

steveincowtown wrote:

jnichols2 wrote:

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

I didn't communicate my point very well. As a private property owner I think you should be able to tell anyone, at anytime, for any reason, to leave your property.


I think if you see something (heck, even suspect something) for any reason that you don't like, you should be able to tell a person to leave and they should do so immediately. I just don't think there should be a sign for it.

I agree with the sign. I have no idea why it was written into the law the way it was, but I bet Charles Cotton could tell us.

My first experience was yesterday, the first full day with my new CHL.

At the entrance to the Saxett Gun Show in Austin was a 30.06 sign I had walked past without seeing for two years.
I just shrugged my shoulders, walked back to the parking lot, and secured my gun in the car.
They already had LEOs at the entrance to enforce it.
I never "saw" the sign before because I didn't know what it was then.

"The Law is for the Protection of the People." Kris Kristofferson

steveincowtown wrote:#1> Private property rights are not absolute. In both our home and our business we must maintain certain standards that we as the public have decided are needed.

#2> I think a private property owner should be able to ASK anyone, at anytime, to leave their property for any reason.


#3> I don't think that it should be an offense to just enter any ones business, doing anything, without first being asked to leave. In other words, why do we have a sign that criminalizes trespass by a CHL with no other notice than just that sign? Think about how ridiculous it would seem if we attached the same standards to any other activity?

"Is this 911"

"Yes, it is."

" I need to report a gentleman who walked right passed by no shirt, no shoes sign."

"We are on our way."

I'm a "property rights" kind of guy.

If I start a business, on the property I own, I HAVE NOT given up the right to TELL anyone to leave my property.

Certainly, the state may have the right to pull my business license. And the public has the right to boycott my business. But they DO NOT have the right to force themselves onto my property against my will -- that's called trespassing.

Starting a business DOES NOT automatically convert private property to public property. It may in the Soviet Union or North Korea.

A public business has, by it's nature, extended an open invitation to the public. However; they can quickly revoke that information for a customer that misbehaves. An invited guest that mistreats my home or family will quickly find himself out on the sidewalk. That is the property owner's right.

City parks, schools, libraries, etc are all considered public property, paid for by public funds. Microsoft and General Motors are still PRIVATE property, and both have armed security guards to forcibly evict unwanted clients. Walmart is also private property, they are just to cheap to hire security. But many other stores do have security staff.

Bars and nightclubs are "open to the public", but just make a nuisance of yourself in one that has a mean bouncer. You may be trying to explain your "public" right to his bar to Mr. T. They don't have to call a LEO to tell the customer to leave, Mr. T will take care of that task.

My right to carry doesn't trump a property owner's right to set standards for anyone entering his property.

Opening a business doesn't require the business owner to abdicate his right to set standards, and let the government and/or public set those standards for him/her. That would make the government and/or public the defacto owners. Yes, the government does set health standards for him to keep the business open, but that doesn't stop him from setting behavior and demeanor standards.

A business owner still retains the right to decide whether to allow customers who are shirtless, who get loud and rowdy, or who carry weapons, irregardless of the 30.06 statute. If he doesn't want guns on his property, he can post that, even if he posts it incorrectly.

Many folks misunderstand the 30.06 statute. If the business owner uses the wrong type of sign, he still has a right to bar weapons from his property. If he posts the correct 30.06 sign, anyone carrying will also be guilty of violating the 30.06 statute, and can be prosecuted under such. If he posts another type of sign, he still has the right to evict anyone carrying, but the Great State of Texas won't prosecute them for violating 30.06. He also has the right to use a metal detector as a requirement of entrance. (as several bars in Austin do) Many folks on this forum believe they can legally bring weapons onto his property just because he used the wrong type sign. That will only protect them from losing their license under 30.06.

To take it a step further, he has the right to forcibly evict offenders.

The public park is public property because we all pay for it with our taxes. The government sets standards in our behalf. Joe's bakery is private property. Joe paid for it, and Joe sets standards.

My god people, this is Texas, not the Soviet Union.