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Reloader wrote:If he hadn't been told by the 911 operator NOT to go outside, he might have been justified, but when he bragged to the operator he shot them, I think it may have changed to pre-meditation.

I don't think anything the 911 operator might have told him matters one way or the other. The 911 operator is not on the scene. I do not believe he has any lawful authority to issue any kind of binding order. (Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.)

To me, he had every right to go outside, and he had every right to arm himself. I may well have done the same thing in his shoes.

The crux of it is, what happened after he ordered the BG's to stop. If they ran away, I personally would not have shot them. If they ran towards him, shooting them would be much easier to justify.

Eventually, we will know what happened and we will see how this turns out.

I haven't seen the latest stories on this, but has it been determined whether the BG's ran towards Mr. Horn when he challenged them, or if they ran away?

If the former, I think he will easily be no-billed in spite of the unwise way he ran his mouth on the phone with 911.

If the latter, he is non much shakier ground legally, IMO, however much most of us may sympathize with him morally.

Given Quannel's record, it's obvious that he doesn't qualify to either purchase or carry a gun in TX.

We've all been preconditioned to believe that the human life is all important. And the ones who trumpet this belief the loudest are the same ones who believe in the killing of the unborn child.

A little more on point, those who trumpet the "infinite" value of human life also tend to be the ones who are content to "outsource" the protection of their own lives and those of their loved ones to the police.

Actions speak louder than words.

I might pay someone to cut my grass or paint my house, but my life is just a wee bit more important, and more highly-valued to me, than that.

I would submit that the segment of the population who really cares about human life is the one represented right here on this forum. We care enough about our own lives and those of our loved ones that we are willing to take responsibility for protecting those lives ourselves.

The anti self defense people just pay lip service to the concept of the value of human life. Where and when it really counts, they come up empty.

From the 911 tape, two things are obvious.

1) It took over 7 minutes for the cops to get there.

2) They apparently did not get there in time to stop the BG's from getting away because the BG's were getting away when the old guy went outside.

Possibly the cops got there just as the BG's were trying to make their escape. Unfortunately for the BG's, the old guy got there just a smidgen earlier.

Whether the police response time was "OK" or "reasonable" is a subjective judgement. I remember reading that in Austin the average response time was around 7 or 8 minutes at one time. Is this an "OK" response time? Who knows? It depends on how you define "OK". And that is at least somewhat arbitrary.

All I know is that 7 or 8 minutes is far too long to have to deal with one or more BG's without being suitably armed. Even 1 minute can be a very long time in some circumstances.

When you come right down to it, that's why we own guns, right?

I wouldn't give this guy a free pass. My sympathies are inclined in his direction, but absent the details it is not clear to me that he had justification to shoot.

Note, the shootings may have been justified, but also may not have.

It all comes down to the details, IMO.

If the BG's were running towards him, I'd be more inclined to cut the guy a break. But if they were just running away, or trying to, I'd be more inclined to bill him.

He really ran his mouth on that 911 tape. I got the distinct impression that he was chomping at the bit to go out there and whack those guys. And the very short time between the order to stop and the "Boom....... Boom.", raised my eyebrows as well.

I mean, did the guys even have time to stop?

FWIW, I think this guy pushed the envelope. Judging by what's on the 911 tape, I think he's in trouble.

I know that there's no way I would have done what he did. I might have gone outside and confronted the BG's, but I would not have shot them unless they charged me or did some other stupid thing like that.

I couldn't tell from the 911 audio whether the BG's ran towards him or away from him when he challenged them. But I did notice that the time between him ordering them to stop and the sound of the first shotgun blast was very short. But this may mean nothing as I have no idea of what the distances were.

If I ordered them to stop and they simply ran off, I would have let them go. When the cops got there, I would do my best to point out where they went.

It's true that we don't know exactly what took place when the guy went outside. With all the facts, it might look different. But right now, I don't like this one.