TexasCHLforum.com

oljames3 wrote:The Whataburger manager I talked to in Arizona did not know anything about a no open carry policy.

Did you point it out to him on the Whataburger web page?

thetexan wrote:They can show me an employee. They can show me a policy. They can show me a sign.

Until they show me an employee who either is the owner or speaks with the APPARENT authority of the owner who verbally notifies me to leave, or shows me a written document with the identical 30.07 language written on it, or displays a properly posted compliant 30.07 sign I will have until then not been lawfully notified. And neither will anyone else.

Anybody who is wearing a Whataburger uniform and refuses to serve you and asks you to leave will be acting with the APPARENT authority of the owner.

VMI77 wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

VMI77 wrote:Massad Ayoob on open carry: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/14/massa ... led-carry/

Concealed Means Concealed

If your local license requires concealed carry, keep the gun truly concealed. The revealing of a concealed handgun is seen in many quarters as a threat, which can result in charges of criminal threatening, brandishing and more. A malevolent person who wants to falsely accuse you of threatening them with a gun will have their wrongful accusation bolstered if the police find you with a gun where they said it was. Yes, that happens. Some jurisdictions allow “open carry.” I support the right to open carry, in the proper time and place, but I have found over the decades that there are relatively few ideal times or places where the practice won’t unnecessarily and predictably frighten someone the carrier had no reason to scare.

I agree with this. If OC is not the cultural norm, it is easier to conceal and go on about my business. Out where I hunt, it is customary and acceptable for folks to bring their rifles into the local diner instead of leaving them unattended in Jeeps and such... No one bats an eye at a guy with a long gun there. Downtown Dallas has a different reaction.

Do they provide gun racks so you don't have to prop them up by your table?

Actually, yes, there was a wooden rack over in the corner!

VMI77 wrote:Massad Ayoob on open carry: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/14/massa ... led-carry/

Concealed Means Concealed

If your local license requires concealed carry, keep the gun truly concealed. The revealing of a concealed handgun is seen in many quarters as a threat, which can result in charges of criminal threatening, brandishing and more. A malevolent person who wants to falsely accuse you of threatening them with a gun will have their wrongful accusation bolstered if the police find you with a gun where they said it was. Yes, that happens. Some jurisdictions allow “open carry.” I support the right to open carry, in the proper time and place, but I have found over the decades that there are relatively few ideal times or places where the practice won’t unnecessarily and predictably frighten someone the carrier had no reason to scare.

I agree with this. If OC is not the cultural norm, it is easier to conceal and go on about my business. Out where I hunt, it is customary and acceptable for folks to bring their rifles into the local diner instead of leaving them unattended in Jeeps and such... No one bats an eye at a guy with a long gun there. Downtown Dallas has a different reaction.

jmra wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
Would you eat at a restaurant that was posted 30.06?

No, I said "how I wear my firearm", I can't wear my firearm at a place posted 30.06.

Ok, so what is the difference between you and Richbirdhunter, other than he may be a little more restrictive in the businesses he supports? Has a place that you frequented posted and you quit using their services? Did you let the establishment know why you don't do business there?

Just playing devil's advocate here...

For me, if they post and I can get the same goods and services elsewhere, I do. I don't fault those who still shop there, or call them anti-gun. I don't protest. I may send an email letting them know the reason why I no longer choose to do business with them, but I doubt they miss me. Kinda comes back to such a small percentage of CHL licenses holders in Texas. Guess that is why I don't fault WB's decision.

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
Would you eat at a restaurant that was posted 30.06?

I don't, I don't go to AMC theaters or most places that choose to be gun free zones.

I can respect this view as well. Since AMC posted, I have avoided them too... more out of my convenience though than a purposeful boycott. Usually we go to the movies on a whim, and I don't like to leave a firearm in my vehicle when parked at a theater or a mall, so if we are out and about and I am carrying we find a different theater than AMC.

Taypo wrote:

cyphertext wrote:
Would you eat at a restaurant that was posted 30.06?

Im a member at a posted gym and I buy groceries at a posted grocery store, because the service and the food is worth it. If that makes me anti-gun, so be it.

I don't think that makes you anti gun... It just means that you have other priorities that override the inability to carry your firearm at those particular locations. I can respect that, not that you asked for my approval or anything!

jmra wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote: My hope is not to call anyone a Pelosi, but when my opinion is minimized by labeling me militant or some other endearing term it's frustrating to say the least.

Are people really minimizing your opinion, or are you frustrated because the majority on this board simply do not agree with it, and tend to believe the property owner is within their right to not allow OC?

I'm from California, I haven't ever had the majority opinion on any gun issue. Any business can operate how ever they see fit, however I don't have to like it.
I just never thought I'd be to conservative for a Texas gun website

I would argue that the belief in property rights is also a conservative value. I would say that allowing the market to decide if the business made a sound decision is also extremely conservative... and in this case, it appears that the market is fine with WB's decision. Again, with only 3% of Texans being CHL holders, to have WB state that they are still going to allow CHL is still a win. They very easily could have "asked" us to leave all guns at home, or even go as far as legally posting.

Those are valid points, and I appreciate them. So let me ask this, do we know of any hamburger joints that will allow OC? That way we all win!

How I wear my firearm will not be the determining factor in where I buy a burger. The burger itself will be the determining factor. I don't go out to eat to make a political statement, I go out to eat because I enjoy the food.

Would you eat at a restaurant that was posted 30.06?

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote: My hope is not to call anyone a Pelosi, but when my opinion is minimized by labeling me militant or some other endearing term it's frustrating to say the least.

Are people really minimizing your opinion, or are you frustrated because the majority on this board simply do not agree with it, and tend to believe the property owner is within their right to not allow OC?

I'm from California, I haven't ever had the majority opinion on any gun issue. Any business can operate how ever they see fit, however I don't have to like it.
I just never thought I'd be to conservative for a Texas gun website

I would argue that the belief in property rights is also a conservative value. I would say that allowing the market to decide if the business made a sound decision is also extremely conservative... and in this case, it appears that the market is fine with WB's decision. Again, with only 3% of Texans being CHL holders, to have WB state that they are still going to allow CHL is still a win. They very easily could have "asked" us to leave all guns at home, or even go as far as legally posting.

Those are valid points, and I appreciate them. So let me ask this, do we know of any hamburger joints that will allow OC? That way we all win!

Hopefully other businesses will take the wait and see approach, and see how many of their customers actually OC, and if they get any complaints. I suspect we will see quite a bit of OC at first, and then less after the novelty dies down... even with OC, a sidearm is still somewhat uncomfortable and heavy, and many still will not carry. The further you get away from the big cities, the more OC will be accepted.

McDonald's, Dunkin Donuts, and Baskin Robbins have previously stated that they expect their stores to follow local, state, and federal laws regarding open carry. I take that to mean that it would not be an issue there... but I don't like McDonald's.

Richbirdhunter wrote:

cyphertext wrote:

Richbirdhunter wrote: My hope is not to call anyone a Pelosi, but when my opinion is minimized by labeling me militant or some other endearing term it's frustrating to say the least.

Are people really minimizing your opinion, or are you frustrated because the majority on this board simply do not agree with it, and tend to believe the property owner is within their right to not allow OC?

I'm from California, I haven't ever had the majority opinion on any gun issue. Any business can operate how ever they see fit, however I don't have to like it.
I just never thought I'd be to conservative for a Texas gun website

I would argue that the belief in property rights is also a conservative value. I would say that allowing the market to decide if the business made a sound decision is also extremely conservative... and in this case, it appears that the market is fine with WB's decision. Again, with only 3% of Texans being CHL holders, to have WB state that they are still going to allow CHL is still a win. They very easily could have "asked" us to leave all guns at home, or even go as far as legally posting.

Richbirdhunter wrote: My hope is not to call anyone a Pelosi, but when my opinion is minimized by labeling me militant or some other endearing term it's frustrating to say the least.

Are people really minimizing your opinion, or are you frustrated because the majority on this board simply do not agree with it, and tend to believe the property owner is within their right to not allow OC?

Richbirdhunter wrote:I love the names for the OCT crowd, militants, not normal, and a few other endearing names. Is everybody ok with calling non-militants, Pelosi's? As long as it's with the same love and respect as the otherside has been using?

Obviously you have never tried to have a discussion with OCT folks where you both agree on the message, but not the delivery. Simply because I thought there were other ways to promote open carry that may be more productive than walking into private businesses with an AR slung at the low ready, I was called names and ridiculed... I was called a "butter" and had my service and loyalty to my country questioned. So "militant" is fairly respectful based on my interaction with the open carry crowd. Militant is defined as "combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods." Is OCT not aggressive? Do they not use extreme, confrontational methods"?

See, you just fell into their same trap... if someone does not agree with you 100%, they must be the enemy... Suggesting that those of us who think Whataburger has a right to deny OC in their establishment must somehow have the same views on gun control as Nancy Pelosi... basically you are just lashing out, trying to cause confrontation... so yes, I would label you as being "militant".

mojo84 wrote:

Taypo wrote:

mojo84 wrote:Why not just lay low until after January 1 and the business owners will see it isn't a big deal and the OC proponents will see not that many companies will make a big deal of it?

If OC proponents keep pushing for a decision before 1/1, the results will not be in our favor. Once 1/1 comes and there is an issue, we can deal with it then in an appropriate manner.

I'd say the chances of CJ and the Reverend laying low for 5 months are probably equal to heck freezing over and Jade Helm actually being a takeover of Texas.

My post was directed to those on here that are dead set on getting their way and forcing their views on business owners. Kory, Holcombe and CJ don't hit my radar unless I'm spitting.

I thought I saw something saying that Holcombe is supporting WB's decision and will just continue to conceal and enjoy their tasty burgers.

VMI77 wrote: What is Sprouts? Never heard of it. Not that it matters since I don't darken the door of any business with a 30.06 sign.

It's a grocery chain that offers organic and natural type foods, but less expensive than Whole Foods Market. https://www.sprouts.com/

AggieDad15 wrote:
What do you care? Lots of other business did NOT cave in such as KROGER. What ax have you got to grind? s I said if you bothered to READ my post: YOU can do as you please. But stop whining about what **I** do. You're acting like your a WB employee or something LOL. To each his own.

I went back and read the letter from the WB CEO and it is clear that he is addressing it to OC groups... which means that he was pushed into making a statement. Had the OC groups not pushed the issue, it probably would have been a wait and see issue.

You said "lots of businesses" yet you repeatedly say "KROGER"... Kroger is one business... lots of businesses have asked the OC crowd to keep the guns out of their stores. Sonic, Starbucks, Applebees, Chilis, Jack in the Box, Wendys, Arbys, Chipotle, Target, Sprouts (even went one step further and posted 30.06)... that is a lot of businesses, and now add Whataburger to that list.

So, what is your ax to grind? You seem to be PO'd that WB will continue to allow CC but not OC. Would you rather they not allow either? They are trying to make accommodations for all, or at least the majority, of their customers... which is what businesses do. If the issue is continually pushed in Kroger, they will change their mind as well. CHL holders are a minority... last number I saw was less than 3% of Texans have a CHL. To have WB publicly state that CC is welcomed is still a win.