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killerfly128 wrote: Fair enough. Your initial responses came off with a tone that is very indicative of a new CHLer with limited life experience. It is a viewpoint I run into alarmingly often with younger CHLers (mind you at 30 I am still a baby compared to some of the folks here). Your last post was more clear and I can understand that thought process although my family and myself are the only ones I would consider stepping over a potential line for. Everyone else I will do my darnedest to ensure I am well within the law.

I've done a lot of research on CCW philosophy over the past few months to try and develop my own "code" to sort of form a plan of action for any given situation. What I've come up with is this: I will not even think of engage anyone that is not an immediate threat to myself, my loved ones, or any fellow man in my immediate presence. There are 2 exceptions to this "rule of thumb" that come to mind: I will engage an active shooter if I feel that I can get within acceptable range (be it covertly or through the use of cover) to effectively take him down (if LE is on scene, I'll leave it to them), and I will also do everything in my power to stop the harming or kidnapping of a child.

killerfly, I'm going to cease response to the topic of law vs moral as I don't feel I am being understood correctly.

Just know that my piece will not leave its resting place on my side until my life or a loved one's life is at stake. At which point, weapon's hot and someone's about to be perforated, regardless of any possible consequences. Would I much rather it be crystal clear to all following investigations that I was 100% in the right? You betcha. However, I'd rather spend the rest of my life in a federal prison knowing that me and my loved ones are still alive and well than to lose them because by defending them and myself, my actions were not legally justified.

killerfly128 wrote:Sigh.
I am not trying to bring you down, but you need to hear what I am saying. Please think about it not only for your sake, but for the people in your life's sake as well as fellow CHL holders.

I hear you, loud and clear.

Look, the law does what it can to protect the interest of the good guy, but not 100% of the time. My morals protect the interest of myself and fellow man (the good guys) 100% of the time.

I read a story not long ago about a doctor that worked in a hospital with 30.06 signage (or similar legal signage in a different jurisdiction)
He was in fact illegally carrying a handgun. An active shooter became present in the facility, and the doctor drew and fired, saving who knows how many lives.

This situation here is exactly what I mean. Should the guy have been carrying? Well, maybe not, but thank God he was.

Maybe I worded my point poorly, but this is what it meant.

*I will try to find the source of this story if anyone is interested.

killerfly128 wrote:I wasn't very clear as to if you were on his property or on a sidewalk/public road during your interaction. If I am reading it right you had pulled onto his property.

This is debatable. The gravel driveway went all the way out to the county road. Where county property ends and his property began is unclear. It was near the edge of both. The grassy shoulder off of the actual road was moreso a ditch than a shoulder. Where the shoulder met this man's driveway, it was much more level ground.

This is very wordy, and I apologize in advance. I'd like feedback, so please read and respond if you have time.

A few months ago, my roommate, his young female cousin, and I made a trip to San Marcos from our residence in Lockhart to indulge in some Pluckers chicken wings. I wasn't driving, so I helped myself to a few Shiner drafts.
It was about 11:30 when we left Pluckers, obviously dark.
We took a "shortcut" home that weaves through a couple of county roads that passes through the small town of Maxwell that is home to no more than 500 people.
As we're on that road, a small, dark animal ran right in front of our moving vehicle. Of course we make contact with the little beast doing about 65mph or so.
Immediately, a terrible scraping sound became audible, and even as the passenger, I could feel the vehicle meeting some serious resistance. It felt as if whatever we hit was stuck to the car and we were dragging it. We pull off the road, driver puts on his flashers, and he and I get out to see what in the world is going on with his ride.

It turns out that the animal we hit was a small hog. The impact shattered the bolts that hold the metal undercarriage to the frame of the car, as well as bent it to where it was touching the ground whether the vehicle was in motion or not.
We tried to jimmy rig the sheet metal by bending it upwards to keep it from contacting ground, as we were about 10 miles from town and all felt it was an issue that would best be settled the following day. A temporary fix was all that was necessary.
Our quick solution didn't work, so I started phoning friends for a ride out of there.

Now we were left with what to do with the vehicle in the meantime. As our current location was just after the peak of a hill on an already curvy and otherwise sketchy road, we felt it was best to get this thing as far away from traffic as possible. There was a dirt driveway about 20 yards ahead, so we pulled into it.
This driveway had about a car width of knee-high grass on both sides, so we felt it was best to park there, so our vehicle wouldn't impede the resident's use of the driveway. The driveway itself was about 100 yards long, and it led up to a medium sized house. There were no lights on in the house, but there were 2 visible trucks at the end of the driveway. Looked like someone was home, but likely all asleep.
The driver at this point starts locking up valuables that weren't necessary for him to retrieve from the vehicle so they remained somewhat safe overnight. While he's doing this, I write out a little note explaining the situation and how the car will be gone in the morning. I intended to go and leave it in a conspicuous place on the residence and make no contact whatsoever. No need to bother these fine folks with our problem, right?

As I'm approaching the residence, I hear barking that's clearly coming from outside. I can't see if the dog's restrained, so I obviously retreated back to the car. The dog continues to bark in a very loud, obnoxious manner. Sure enough, lights start coming on from within the house. Then a porch light turns on, the front door swings open, and someone emerges and briskly walks to the side of the house.
Even with the new light, not much can be seen from the far end of the driveway where we're at. About 30 seconds after the resident exited the house, a flashlight turns on and is clearly approaching the scene, along with the incessant barking that's getting louder and louder as the light gets closer. I'm sitting in the passenger seat as this is all happening, while the driver is standing outside the vehicle, ready to make contact with the resident.

At this point, I had no idea what we were about to encounter. Could be a friendly; could be a threat. The man had a dog with him (which I soon found to be some kind of mutt with a significant amount of German shepherd [a dog I DO NOT want to tick off]), a bright flashlight (which limited my own visibility while trying to determine what kind of person we were dealing with), and it was safe to assume he was armed -- be it a handgun, knife, etc.
I was armed with nothing but a 4" Gerber fixed blade that I had on my belt. I did not have my CHL at the time, and even if I did, I would not be carrying as I
My buddy, the driver, was just standing there, arms crossed, with apparently no intent to make it known that we meant no harm.
My friend is a good guy; he's just not exactly the brightest crayon in the box, nor does he possess adequate skills to diffuse a nasty situation.
Seeing as allowing him to make first contact with the guy wouldn't be be the best of ideas, I promptly got out of the vehicle and began to wave to the guy that was hastily approaching us while still behind the now open car door. I called out some friendly words, something along the lines of "Hey sir, how are you doin'? We're having car trouble."

I received no response. I stepped out from behind the car door to take "point" as I knew I was the only armed one in the group, even if it was only with a small knife. As I was about even with the tip of the hood of the car, the approaching man yells out in a seemingly hostile manner, "You can stay right where you're at, bud." By now, he was close enough that he was now illuminated by the vehicle's dim parking lights and flashing hazards. I calmly raised both my hands to be slightly below shoulder level to illustrate that I did not have a weapon in hand, while trying to calmly but quickly explain the situation.
Thin entire time, his dog is still barking and checking us out.

As I'm giving my explanation, this guy is way too jumpy for my liking. He's got a light pointed at me, and his free hand behind his back. I make it known that we are simply waiting on our ride back to town to arrive, and that we are expecting company at any minute. This guy wants proof for every piece of the story, and clearly doesn't believe us. He then starts circling the car, shining his light inside to see what all was inside. He sees the young cousin in the back seat and doesn't even mention anything of her presence. As his attention is diverted, I swear this guy even says "Don't make any sudden moves, or my dog will bite your ****ing hand off."

He kneels down in front of the car to see if the damage I described was legitimate, and even went as far as walking up the road to see the hog carcass. Shortly after doing so, a mutual friend of me and the driver showed up and we all got the heck outta dodge.

The guy was a butthead. Granted, he had the right to be. We were on his property in the middle of the night -- he had no idea if we were friend or foe. However, for a great deal of the time spent in the confrontation, I felt that I had a legitimate reason to fear for the safety of myself, my friend, and his kid cousin.

Had I been carrying that night, and he drew his weapon on us, would I be justified in pulling my own?
I believe it goes without saying that I would have done everything possible to avoid having to unholster, but once a gun is pulled on me or a friend of mine, I feel that I am left with no other choice.
I'm almost certain that had I drawn, fired, and hit the guy, I would have legally been in the wrong. I technically had no legal right to be there.
However, my safety and morals do indeed take precedence over law.
I signed on to carry in public knowing and accepting that shooting someone who means me or loved ones harm may not always be legally justified; I am fully prepared to accept consequences for doing so.

In the end, I'll know in my heart that I've done what's right.

Has anyone had a similar or related incident? I'd love to hear feedback.
I had just taken my CHL course at the time, and I've been giving this instance much thought since then.
Now that I'm able to carry, I must have a plan of action for every situation imaginable.
This is one of those that I am just not sure about what can be done with the least amount of ramifications.