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ScottDLS wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:25 pm

cyphertext wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 2:22 pm ...
When the bill says "substantially similar", that leaves a lot open to interpretation. If they want to to preclude entry by signage, the bill should state "shall", not "may"... just like many states moved from "may" issue to "shall" issue on concealed carry license. Ambiguity is not good in law... creates loopholes and unintended consequences.
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You can be the test case if you like. Funny that you bring up the purple paint markers... those seem to be a lot harder to understand the meaning of than the no guns pictograph.

Substantially similar is not THAT vague a term. In fact, I don't think it's vague at all in the context of what we're discussing. A sticker with NO writing in NO language is not substantially similar to the prescribed sign.

Granted, all this stuff is subject to interpretation. However, in criminal cases the burden is on the prosecution and all the elements of the crime must be proven to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. I "reasonably doubt" that a sticker is substantially similar to the format and wording of the sign prescribed in 30.05.

We're never going to get the proverbial "test case" for the same reason that we will never get one for the Federal Gun Free School Zone Act (TAM should be very impressed that I worked that into this thread ). The circumstances are so unlikely to occur for it to be tested:

-You conceal past a sticker, that you may or may not have noticed, without having a LTC.
-A store employee notices and rather than asking you to depart, calls the police.
-The police rather than telling the store employee to tell you to leave, actually comes to the store.
-The police officer confronts you before you have left the store and makes you leave the store.
-The police officer detains or arrests you for a no jail $200 class C ticket in order to search you so that he may discover that you actually were carrying and it wasn't just your insulin pump.
-The cop writes you the ticket.
-The county (JP) prosecutor or municipal attorney decides to go to trial even after you insist that you didn't see the sign.
-You ask for a jury trial, as is your right.
-The prosecutor proves to the jury that the witness actually saw a concealed handgun (through your concealment) and that it wasn't in fact your insulin pump.
-Prosecutor establishes that you received notice despite notice being defined as a sign "substantially similar" to one with 1" letters, 2 languages, and specific wording as compared to the sticker.
-The Justice of the Peace or Municipal Judge lets this go to the jury.
-The jury convicts
-You appeal
-The appellate court rules despite all of the above that a circle / gun sticker is in fact substantially similar.
- It becomes case law.