TexasCHLforum.com

The manuals have to give instructions so people who end up cocking them with live rounds have a source of information for de-cocking them without shooting themselves.

I never found the need to cock a revolver, even when I carried one as a cop.

Broge5 wrote:Knockdown Power? OK, maybe not, but I sure like the Bigger Holes it makes!



Broge5

I call them "flying ashtrays". ;)

As an instructor, I still continue to learn from every school I have attended. Back in the old days, Texas DPS taught one-handed, target, single action revolver shooting. Not anymore, ya know why? Not because of Cooper or anyone else. It is because Troopers were getting killed.

People are teaching condition 1 because it works. I don't think the people I have studied with gave a tiny rats patoot about what others think. They are teaching what they have seen work in combat and kept people alive.

Again, if anyone here wants to carry a club that looks like a gun, knock yourself out. But please don't do others a dis-service by advocating it as a sound method for them.

KD5NRH wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:One does NOT lower the hammer on a revolver with a loaded chamber.

Uh, then how does one render a cocked revolver safe? Neither my M&P nor my Blackhawk will allow anything to be done other than lowering the hammer at that point.

.

[/quote]


There is no need to cock a modern double action revolver. Regardless of what the manual says, it is unsafe to do so. I grew up on revolvers back in the late '60s and early '70s. Cocking a revolver would you head slapped by any competent hander or instructor.

The purpose of using force is to stop, control or neutralize your attacker. There are many levels of force available to do that. The law recognizes that some levels of force can cause serious bodily injury or death, and allows for that in specific situations.

When using deadly force in self-defense you simply want the person to stop. The most effective way to do that is with a brain stem shot; however, that type of shot is extremely difficult in a violent encounter. So we use the next most effective, a center of mass shot (COM). To cause the person to stop as quickly as possible with COM, shot placement and penetration are the important factors.

I am with you in the caliber of choice. The fact is that most people shot with handguns survive. I'm fine with that as long as he stops his unlawful, deadly assault against me. I am also aware that he might die from a use of deadly force, and although I hope to never have to take a life, he chose the actions that I wa sforced to respond to. ;)

txbroker wrote:I was confused by an earlier statement about knockdown power and handguns? can someone elaborate?

Handguns don't have "knockdown power". Heck, most rifles don't either. However, I think most people are referring to the general power of the round when they use the term. Some people DO believe that a person will be knocked down by the impact of the bullet, and we try to kill these and other hollywood myths.

rm9792 wrote:Thats one of the bones of contention here. I point in a safe direction, grasp the hammer firmly with my left thumb and forefinger, then squeeze the trigger with my right hand. I have been doing this with guns for over 30 years and had only one ever slip, but my hands were sweaty and it was the tiny hammer on a desert eagle. I was pointed to the ground in a safe direction though. I dont "cowboy" it with the same hand or anything so to me it is perfectly safe. Considering my ccw was cleaned/loaded 4 months ago and hasnt been unloaded since i only had to do this once in the last year. Why is this any different than lowering the hammer on a revolver or a DA pistol? I just dont agree that it is unsafe if done properly. I prefer hammer down simply because I feel safer, and in my case I am the same on the draw. I used to carry empty chamber but you guys convinced me it was unsafe in a bad situation.

One does NOT lower the hammer on a revolver with a loaded chamber. One does not lower the hammer on a DA pistol with the chamber loaded unless using a de-cocking device.

If you have at least a few pounds of pressure on holding back the hammer and it does slip then it likely will be a light strike and not fire. But if it does you had it pointed in a safe manner, right?

Just because you have only had one negligent discharge (isn't that more than enough) does not mean it is a safe manner to handle a pistol, nor is it a good idea for anyone else.

I am not interested in changing your mind, but new shooters and handlers need to learn it right. ;)

rm9792 wrote:Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed. With a spur hammer you have plenty of surface area to thumb back on the draw (finger off trigger till ready). I have large hands so my fingers get a good grip on the pistol so my thumb is free to pull the hammer as i am clearing the holster. Just another idea for you.

I am skeptical, but forgetting the speed issue, how do you get the hammer down in a safe manner?

Also, carry in that manner requires the safety to alreay be off when you "thumb back" on the draw. If the hands are sweaty, bloody or otherwise being able to thumb the hammer can be impossible. You did not ask for MY advice so I won't give it to you, but for others, carry in the condition you describe is dangerous.

The Colt Defender is a 1911 style pistol. We have discussed the carry condition of this type of gun here, even recently.

It should be carried in condition 1; a round in the chamber, the hammer back, and the thumb safety on.

My 1911 is sitting on my hip right now in that condition.

To fire you must disengage the thumb safety, grip the pistol properly to disengage the grip safety, and press the trigger.