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txinvestigator

wjmphoto wrote:
seamusTX wrote:
wjmphoto wrote:There is no logical reason to not have a process of licensing guns for the purpose of carrying them in public, just as there is no logical reason to not have a system of licensing people in order to drive a vehicle.
There is a logical reason: neither of these systems works.
wjmphoto wrote:But there are some very big differences in demographics that do make Vermont a great deal different that other places. They are overwhlemingly a white state with few minorities.
Thank you for sharing that observation.

- Jim
Not observation, it is a fact.

You are talking about a state that is 97% white, very few blacks, asians hispanics or any other minorities, and unlike many states there is not a large problem of illegal immigrants. They have a higher percentage of high school and college graduates than the national average and lower unemployment rate as well. Demographically that are not a state that is going to have the socio-economic factors required to have high rates of crime. The safety of Vermont is not a result of their gun laws, but a direct result of the makeup of their popluation and economic base.

Your "colors" are truly showing. Your assertions are racist. Or could it be if we could get rid of those pesky minorities crime would go away, eh Fuhrer?

txinvestigator

wjmphoto wrote: No, I did not say that. Please go back and reread what I actually wrote, .

OK, lets see exactly what you wrote

The only way to insure that law abising citizens are the only ones that carry a gun legally is to require background checks, like Texas. Granted it will not stop criminals from carrying because they don't worry about following the law in the first place, but it helps

I paraphrased it

Dude you said, in one statement, that criminals won't bother with the law and will carry even though the law requires background checks, but background checks are the best way to make sure criminals don't carry.

wjmphoto wrote:not what people are selectively quoting and omitting! I have addressed the selective quoting and ommission already and won't do so again

Good, it is ineffective and irrelevant. I already quashed your attempt to allege that CA has "open carry", and now you are making statements and then trying to backtrack.

We can't have an intelligent conversation when your logic is non-existent, and your posts are disingenuous regarding facts.

txinvestigator

wjmphoto wrote:
KBCraig wrote:Don't take up debate for a hobby, okay?
Slippery slope and straw man arguments are certainly not a good starting point for your own debating career. You may want to read up on those logical fallacies yourself before you start poking a finger at others.

Dude you said, in one statement, that criminals won't bother with the law and will carry even though the law requires background checks, but background checks are the best way to make sure criminals don't carry.

That makes no sense, and a slippery hill has nothing to do with it.

Background checks do nothing, except keep the state from spending money on a piece of plastic for those who cannot qualify. They have no real effect on who carries.

txinvestigator

Darwood wrote:Phoenix, AZ has unlicensed open carry and is a city of 4 million people. They seem to be doing fine so I don't buy it that large metropolitan areas can't handle unlicensed open carry.

4 million? About 1/4 that, at 1,321,045. You can't just make stuff up that would seem to help your argument. Ever heard of the internet?

txinvestigator

wjmphoto wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
wjmphoto wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote: We need logical, proof driven discussions to support our cause. More states allow open carry than concealed carry (I believe), and before concealed carry caught on, it was the only way to carry in most states! You can open carry in Kalifornia!

Anygun
You can in Texas too.
Perhaps I mised the sarcasm in this response (forgive me if I did) but....

To the best of my knowledge, you can't open carry in Texas. Failure to conceal if you are a permit holder is a criminal offense. (True, you can open carry on your own property, but that is the only place I am aware of.) And if open carry is legal in Texas, why does this organization (http://www.txcdl.org/index.html?1158230811622) exist?
Open carry is as severely restricted in CA. That was my point.

However, in Texas, carry of handguns is generally prohibited. CHL people can carry, but must conceal. Other than the presumption of travelers, that is the only allowance to carry a handgun that is restricted to concealed carry.

Cops, Military, Carry on your own property or property under your control, Carry while hunting or fishing or engaged in a lawful sporting activity, travel in general, an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed, can all carry any way they desire.

A armed security guard is required BY LAW to open carry.

Do you KNOW when open carry is allowed in CA?

EDIT: Sorry KB, I didn't read your response first.
County with a population of less than 200,000 at last census.

Well, let's look at that;

From California law;

ARTICLE 3. LICENSES TO CARRY PISTOLS AND REVOLVERS

12050. (a)(1)(A) The sheriff of a county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying satisfies any one of the conditions specified in subparagraph (D) and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

(i) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

(ii) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

So it is extremely restricted, and not "shall issue". You have to satisfy the
state that you meet their definition of "good cause" they MAY, at their discretion, issue a permit to carry exposed.

How many people do you think have such a permit in CA? I bet MORE people can open carry in Texas than in CA.

So how do you make a blanket statement that "CA has open carry" as an argument for Texas open carry"? You either didn't actually know the law, fair enough, or you intentionally used an irrelevant fact and were being disinginuous.

txinvestigator

wjmphoto wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote: We need logical, proof driven discussions to support our cause. More states allow open carry than concealed carry (I believe), and before concealed carry caught on, it was the only way to carry in most states! You can open carry in Kalifornia!

Anygun
You can in Texas too.
Perhaps I mised the sarcasm in this response (forgive me if I did) but....

To the best of my knowledge, you can't open carry in Texas. Failure to conceal if you are a permit holder is a criminal offense. (True, you can open carry on your own property, but that is the only place I am aware of.) And if open carry is legal in Texas, why does this organization (http://www.txcdl.org/index.html?1158230811622) exist?

Open carry is as severely restricted in CA. That was my point.

However, in Texas, carry of handguns is generally prohibited. CHL people can carry, but must conceal. Other than the presumption of travelers, that is the only allowance to carry a handgun that is restricted to concealed carry.

Cops, Military, Carry on your own property or property under your control, Carry while hunting or fishing or engaged in a lawful sporting activity, travel in general, an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed, can all carry any way they desire.

A armed security guard is required BY LAW to open carry.

Do you KNOW when open carry is allowed in CA?

EDIT: Sorry KB, I didn't read your response first.

txinvestigator

anygunanywhere wrote: We need logical, proof driven discussions to support our cause. More states allow open carry than concealed carry (I believe), and before concealed carry caught on, it was the only way to carry in most states! You can open carry in Kalifornia!

Anygun

You can in Texas too.

txinvestigator

DSARGE wrote:I was wondering why texas does not allow open carry. Of all the states in the Union, I figure Texas would be the last to ban it! I know many states allow open OR concealed carry. I would never carry open as I feel it attracts unwanted attention and defeats the purpose I got a CHL in the first place. On a different note, it would be nice not to have to worry about printing or flashing. What are your opinions on this?

You don't have to worry about printing or flashing.

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