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rotor wrote:

sixer-sxt-3.7 wrote:

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:

30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...

30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...

Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

I asked earlier without a response, if the place is posted can the owner carry? In other words can someone with authority over-ride his own signs? If the answer is yes than I assume that someone with authority can also give you permission to carry (and I would get it in writing). After all, the person with authority can also remove the signs (or give you verbal instructions to leave).

Rotor,
According to the statue, it's an offense only if it's on the 'property of another '. So I'd say yes, the owner of the property wouldn't be committing an offense if they ignored their own signs.

30.06/30.07 both say someone with apparent authority can give oral notice that you must leave, however it doesn't say anything about who can give effect consent. I'll Google the keywords 'effective consent ' & 'Texas Penal Code ', & edit here if anything worthwhile pops up. I'm of the opinion that you are correct in that someone with apparent authority could give you effective consent, but I try to stay away from opinion & OpEds and focus on what the law says...

ETA:
Here's what TPC Sec. 1.07. DEFINITIONS says about 'Consent' & 'Effective Consent' (found here http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... m/PE.1.htm)

(11) "Consent" means assent in fact, whether express or apparent.

(19) "Effective consent" includes consent by a person legally authorized to act for the owner. Consent is not effective if:
(A) induced by force, threat, or fraud;
(B) given by a person the actor knows is not legally authorized to act for the owner;
(C) given by a person who by reason of youth, mental disease or defect, or intoxication is known by the actor to be unable to make reasonable decisions; or
(D) given solely to detect the commission of an offense.

So, in the end I really don't have a clear-cut answer for you. I'm not a lawyer, but here's a short video that I'm guessing was made by one explaining the difference between consent & effective consent:

sixer-sxt-3.7 wrote:

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:

30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...

30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...

Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

Here's the actual statutes; I highlighted in blue the part about it being an offense without effective consent:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.


Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder openly carries the handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster.

The signs you referenced merely satisfies "written notice" if you are carrying openly/concealed under the authority of your LTC, on someone else's property, without their consent.

IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.