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by allisji
Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:52 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?
Replies: 53
Views: 8117

Re: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?

anygunanywhere wrote:If anyone actually thinks Trump will build a wall or deport illegals they are delusional. Trump is the biggest rino in the race. Look at his past. Are you ignoring what he has done and said? Leopard. Spots. No change.

I'm more inclined to believe that Trump means what he says about immigration than I am to believe that he means what he says about pro-life and the right to bear arms. Those are what bother me more about him. Combined with my doubts that he will try to reduce government size and spending and shift power to the states.
by allisji
Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:22 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?
Replies: 53
Views: 8117

Re: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?

VoiceofReason wrote:Here is a wild idea. I know it sounds crazy but why not put the illegal immigrants in jail when they are caught?

I would imagine about two years working on the roads and parks the first time they are caught would be somewhat of a deterrence. Five years the second time and ten years the third time.

We probably wouldn’t even need a wall or a fence, just signs marking the border.

Well I told you it is a wild idea. Probably the reason no one has considered it.
We may need to make some room in our prisons first.
by allisji
Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:43 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?
Replies: 53
Views: 8117

Re: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?

Make no mistake. By stating his intention that Mexico will pay for the wall, Trump has already started the negotiation.

Jose Caleron (as if it matters what the former Presidente says) has also engaged in negotiation with Trump by saying that Mexico won't pay a cent.

Both sides have presented their MDO (most desirable outcome) and if Trump is elected President (or Cruz, or Rubio, or Kasich, or Carson, or any other of the GOP candidates that has advocated building a wall) then it is time to use leverage, make compromises, and find the win-win.
by allisji
Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:37 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?
Replies: 53
Views: 8117

Re: The Donald's fence - have you seen the one in CA?

fickman wrote:
SA_Steve wrote:Makes me wonder why the current fence topic ("won't work") is such an issue. And folks who talk about it seem unaware that CA has a good one.
I'm all for a virtual fence.

Have you ever been to the Santa Elena Canyon or other parts of Big Bend National Park? To Big Ben Ranch State Park? To Lajitas?

My opinion is that a fence along the entire Texas border would be a travesty to Texans.

To avoid writing a dissertation, I'll quick hit some of my main reasons:
- The beauty of the parks mentioned above would be ruined.
- Black bears and other wildlife have recently reentered Texas for the first time in decades. A wall would have prevented this and other wildlife movement.
- Texans will be cut off from using the Rio Grande for recreation.
- Most of the land along the border is privately owned. It is used by ranchers, farmers, and people who need access to the water to support hunting and other activities. To build the fence would require a major use of eminent domain, cutting the private land owners away from the water. According to an article I recently read, the international treaty mandates that the fence cannot be built within the floodplains of the river, so we're talking about coming north between a few dozen to hundreds of yards to build it, essentially making millions of acres unusable.
- Without the other components (truck patrols, etc.), it will be ineffective. Even with them, it might slow down the problem, but it won't prevent it.
- We can't afford to build it (no, Mexico isn't going to be paying for it). We definitely can't afford to maintain and upgrade it. I think it will quickly become an eyesore and cost even more if future generations decide it needs to be removed.

In populated areas (major cities, the beach like you mentioned, etc.), I support a wall. I think we (and our future generations) will quickly regret building one along the entire border. We need to use technology and rapid response teams which would be much more effective (in both absolute and cost terms).

I predict I will be in the minority on this one, but those are my thoughts. I have changed significantly on this issue over the last five years.
I'm not a Trump supporter (I voted for Cruz, but I believe that Trump will be the GOP nominee). But I have listened intently to the debates, town halls, and rally speeches that he gives. He never has recommended building a wall along the entire border.

He had said time and time again, that much of the border already has a natural border (i.e. the Rio Grande) and that he wouldn't build a wall where there is already a natural boundary. He says that we have about 2000 miles of border with Mexico and only need about 1000 miles of wall.

And let's not jump to conclusions about whether or not Trump could negotiate a deal for Mexico to pay for at least half of the wall. He hasn't played his hand in full, but he talks at every event about the US trade deficit with Mexico and how many US companies are moving production to Mexico, and about how he has plans built into his tax plan and other plans that will bring Us businesses back to the US from Mexico. We have a ton of leverage with Mexico that we currently aren't in any position to use because of government regulations and the current administration's policies.

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