This is highly entertaining for me during an otherwise slow start to a holiday week. First - thanks to all the participants for making the slow, pre-holiday, and last workday of the week much more enjoyable.mojo84 wrote:I take it then you ALWAYS operate on just facts and never a hunch or gut feeling then. If that the case, you don't believe in pretextual stops and detentions? I find it quite concerning how you seem to give such little credence to the law abiding citizen's rights and so much leeway and benefit of the doubt to your Brotherhood. Why is it so upsetting to you what people's OPINION is if they are not the judge or on the jury? I notice many of your brotherhood do not always give the mere citizens the benefit of the doubt over on the policeone forum. Is there a double standard involved? Can you really have it both ways?texanjoker wrote:anygunanywhere wrote:I was following this thread hoping that the LEOs in this forum would unanimously condemn the actions of the LEOs in the story.gigag04 wrote: I was hoping 4 would come up.
Anygunanywhere
I think I have been pretty clear lets see facts of wrong doing. I won't condemn somebody based on a news article nor jump on the bandwagon without proof.
You should actually be glad we call for facts. It would be a whole lot easier at work to make decisions based on limited information vs. doing a complete investigation to uncover the truth. When I worked child abuse you can be sure all those accused of some pretty heinous crimes were very thankful I am meticulous when it comes to wanting to know factual information vs hearsay. (A news story is hearsay.) In many instances I cleared people that otherwise would have been charged with a crime.
If you wouldn't be so ardently supportive of your bretherin when it is obvious they are in the wrong, your arguments would have much more credibility.
So, in the above post, you indicate that it is plainly obvious that they are in the wrong. Others in the thread have offered similiar opinions and little to no factual basis on which to hang those opinions. None-the-less, opinions are free here. In saying there was wrong doing on the part of the LEOs, here, we disagree. I'm sure we can go back and forth, but at the end of the day, I can't get separate from this:
I have actually blocked traffic, worked off duty LEO jobs, deprived people of their rights under the color of law (with cause and often warrants). Furthermore, I have been detained during a traffic stop and criminal investigation, and I have been a free person, pursuing happiness with my family. There is little I haven't seen in police behavior, and I have been the first in line to address wrong, both in myself and others on the job. I have firm ethical convictions on what is acceptable behavior, and on these I do not waiver. I will not and cannot give much weight to the opinion of uninformed outsiders on this....and in the same breath I will add - I don't intend to offend in saying that. I really want to indicate that I will be at an impasse with anyone that calls for firing these guys or otherwise condemns them without know what exactly their involvement was, and how the courts would define and interpret their actions under the reasonable standard.
Stamp and shout and come at the LEOs on this forum and others all you want. It will not change that the activity described in the internet article has not been held by any court I know of to constitute a detention, stop, or otherwise seizure.
And to address the minor point:
LEOs block roads for private sector companies all the time. Many times they are windmill blades and I think that wind power is a waste of tax payer dollars and am strongly against their use. I am no more seized under 4A by diverting around a windmill blade escorted by privately paid, "off duty" motorcycle officers than I would be under the actions described in the original article. it is also done for mobile homes, funerals, oversized O&G equipment, cranes, tanks, and marathons. This is part of life.
