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TomS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:59 am

flechero wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:08 am

You either hit something important or you don’t. All the experts agree on this.

What the experts agree on, is that shot placement is key and trumps caliber in MOST cases. And since no 2 bullets travel the exact same path in identical bodies, there is no way to precisely compare. A 1/16 of an inch here and there DOES matter [greatly] when you are inside a chest cavity, according to both of my friends who are surgeons.

Incapacitation is another funny thing... Lots of people have been shot in the chest "A zone" and just collapsed. Lots of other people have been shot in the chest "A zone" and caused further damage and/or death, before collapsing. The bigger the caliber and the faster the projectile, the better chance [however small it may be] you have of speeding up incapacitation. That's why hollow points are more effective than ball- they open to a greater diameter. (and have sharp edges when they open that cut cleaner/bleed more) And why SD ammo is normally full power or +p.



**Now, if this were a black and white academic exercise, that translated accurately to real life with, we'd all carry a (insert caliber here) with (insert brand here) JHP's and 50% of the internet threads and 50% of gun store discussions would be over after pleasantries were exchanged.

I agree no two bullets and no two people will react the same. I agree a larger bullet with cross section density has a marginal advantage over a 9mm, and I also agree that a faster bullet as a he 357 Sig has a marginal advantage than a slower 9mm but the advantage isn’t great between the two. The energy of a 357 GD is roughly 500 and the energy of a 9mm +P is roughly 400, that 100 foot pounds of energy isn’t enough to matter greatly and that 357 Sig isn’t going to open more than the 9mm unless you want to argue more very fine details. So, as I said, either will be as effective, or they won’t taking what has been said into consideration.

I’m not arguing with anyone as the caliber debate will go on forever, just voicing my opinion and the opinion of others, experts and surgeons alike.

bblhd672 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:58 pm How about when a lighter bullet is traveling at 1800fps and its fluted purportedly to create huge wound cavities?
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Rob72 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:15 pm This really us a non-sequiter. If you're shooting a 125gr .357 @~1300fps and a 124gr 9mm at ~1300, you have equivalence in "power", so I'm unsure as to what the discussion really would be.

If you're talking 9mm 115gr ball @1050 fps, vs the "standard" 125 gr .357 @~1300 fps it's totally apples to walnuts.

dlh wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:46 pm Of course the .357 magnum round is more powerful than the 9 mm. round.

However, having said that, when I go to the range I would much rather shoot my 9 mm handguns than my Smith and Wesson 686 7 shot revolver in .357 magnum. The .357 magnum round is darn loud (even with good hearing protection on) and has a stout recoil. When I shoot the 686 at the range I will usually use .38 special rounds in it.

When I purchased my Ruger LCR I had to weigh what caliber to buy--the .38 special plus p or the .357 magnum...Lots of folks complained about it being a "snappy gun" in .357 magnum so I bought it in the .38 special plus p. It is about my third backup carry gun behind my Glock 26 and my Smith and Wesson Shield M and P in 9 mm.

Whatever you carry---train--and train hard!

TomS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:26 am A hit to the CNS, major blood vessel or heart puts all the pistol calibers on an even playing field, just as a miss does.