TexasCHLforum.com

bblhd672 wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

bblhd672 wrote:

TexasTornado wrote: I wonder what would happen if we called the police (non emergency line of course) and explained that we were going to continue into the building...as there are no laws being broken, would they support us?

I believe that you would be arrested for trespassing. The Austin district attorney and media would love to prosecute and persecute LTC's who are acting in an unlawful manner - whether "legally" you are or are not. It only matters what those entities say on the evening news, and the LTC community would get a black eye in the process.

Better tactic would be to let the legislature do their work toward removing the restrictions which is part of the 2017 plan. Creating a scene now may disrupt those plans.

I think it's more likely you would get arrested for disorderly conduct. Trespassing is clearly statutorily not applicable. It would be like getting arrested for driving 40 in a 45 zone...They'd more likely make up something like reckless driving than try to get you for speeding.

I would agree with you, except we're talking about a clearly anti-gun environment in Austin. I wouldn't give the DA there any opening to go after a LTC holder.

ScottDLS wrote:

AJSully421 wrote:

AustinNative04 wrote:

TexasTornado wrote:

Except for that pesky line that states you can't exclude an LTC Holder on criminal trespass simply for having a weapon.

I think I’m following your point—but correct me if I’m missing it. I recognize that this is park land, and generally speaking, a government entity couldn't exclude an LTC from a park solely for having a lawful firearm.

But, in this situation, Zilker Park is temporarily under the control of a private entity for purposes of the festival. Remember, access is controlled with fences and gates. I believe the LTC would be excluded for violating the terms and conditions of the license--terms set by the private entity, not the City.

So, here is where this gets to be fun.... if the private event promoter decides that you have "violated the terms of your contract / ticket", specifically for carrying a handgun with a license in a public park... who is going to come and throw you out?



Private security in Texas cannot lay a finger on you, they can only observe and report... so they cannot toss you and they cannot arrest you. If they call the real cops, they cannot use 30.05 to remove you because of 30.05(f) and they cannot use 30.06 because the event is occurring in a city owned park. So, the cops cannot touch you unless you are acting crazy, swearing, or being abusive.

No one can legally touch you if they find that you have a licensed handgun.

What will happen next is they will invite some high school marching band to play and try to call the whole thing a "School sponsored event" and restrict carry that way.

All the more reason that every off-limits place needs to be exempted for LTCers.

I think they will take the approach like Cowboys Stadium did for me (at a NON-SCHOOL, NON-PROFESSIONAL, SPORTING EVENT). They will have private security wanding as you present your ticket and will bar your entry. Unless you are going to force your way past the entry and dare them to do something about it, you'll have no choice but to put the gun away or go home.

AustinNative04 wrote:

TexasTornado wrote:

Except for that pesky line that states you can't exclude an LTC Holder on criminal trespass simply for having a weapon.

I think I’m following your point—but correct me if I’m missing it. I recognize that this is park land, and generally speaking, a government entity couldn't exclude an LTC from a park solely for having a lawful firearm.

But, in this situation, Zilker Park is temporarily under the control of a private entity for purposes of the festival. Remember, access is controlled with fences and gates. I believe the LTC would be excluded for violating the terms and conditions of the license--terms set by the private entity, not the City.

AustinNative04 wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

AustinNative04 wrote:

Abraham wrote:AustinNative04,

Are you in agreement with the anti-gun restrictions enforced at the Austin City Limits Festival?

I'm not agreeing or advocating that there should be a no-guns policy. But, I would agree that having such a policy does not violate current law.

It doesn't? PC §30.06/07(e) doesn't apply?

No, I don't think so. I think you can discuss the possibility of amending the statute in the future, but I do not see the City of Austin as acting unlawfully in this situation. Here is my reasoning. BTW, in case you're wondering why I jumped in on this thread, IAAL who has attended a lot of ACL Fests.

First, both 30.06(e) and SB 273 deals with the 30.06 signage specifically, which is likely not in play at ACL. Again, the license grantor can set the terms and conditions of the license, and this is governed by contract law. I've never seen a 30.06 sign at ACL.

Second, even if C3 were to post a 30.06 sign, it would be the private entity doing the posting, rather than the governmental actor. As you are likely aware, this Attorney General concluded in KP-108 that a private entity may legally post a 30.06 sign (even if the crime of trespass under 30.06 is likely unenforceable).

If I were writing policy for C3 and the event organizers told me they want to exclude firearms, I would handle it this way: Make no firearms a contractual condition of the license to attend the festival. If security personnel stop a ticket holder who is violating the terms of the license, exclude the person from the event. If that person refuses to leave, charge that person with trespass under the general criminal trespass law or for disturbing the peace. No need to even mess with the language of 30.06, which likely doesn't even apply anyway, because as someone else mentioned, 30.06 refers to premises.

Again, I'm not advocating that there should be a no-guns policy, only indicating that I think there can be a no-guns policy.

Skiprr wrote:

AustinNative04 wrote:

Abraham wrote:AustinNative04,

Are you in agreement with the anti-gun restrictions enforced at the Austin City Limits Festival?

I'm not agreeing or advocating that there should be a no-guns policy. But, I would agree that having such a policy does not violate current law.

It doesn't? PC §30.06/07(e) doesn't apply?