Search found 5 matches

by Jusme
Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:13 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?
Replies: 79
Views: 15817

Re: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?

thetexan wrote:What if the original 30.06/30.07 law as written by the Legislature stated that there would be no open carry at the Costco store in Frisco, the McDonnalds on East Mockingbird in Dallas and all AutoZone Auto Parts. In that case our right to open carry was never given to us in the first place at those locations. Would we hold those owners in contempt for trampling on a right we were never given by the Legislature? No, we would be cursing the Legislature.

But in the present real life situation if those owners exercise a right that has been equally given to all of us, that is, the right to control his own property, by asking us to not carry on their property, why do we have such disdain for them? The state did not give us an ubiquitous right to carry but a limited right. We have no right of carry on the property of someone who doesn't want it. We all know this.

Why all of the contempt for property owners who don't want weapons? Yes, we can choose to take our business elsewhere, but why? Is it to punish the owners in an effort to make them "pay" for their daring to prevent you from exercising a right you don't even have on their property? Is that the motivation? "You can stop me but I'll show you and make you pay the economic price for exercising your legitimate right...my right to carry is greater than your right to stop me.", which is false on its face since our carry right doesn't even exist on privately owned property unless we are given the "privilege" of carrying on the owner's property by his bestowed consent.

It seems to me that the safety issue is more the point than the owner's philosophical difference on guns and our animosity toward him because of that difference of opinion.

tex

I agree with you that we only carry on others property, because they have not prohibited it. I have no disdain for property owners who choose to prohibit carrying, that is, as you said their right. However, we also have the right to refuse to do business with those who post. I don't expect places like Babies R Us to lose money because I refuse to shop there, I wouldn't shop their anyway, because I don't have any babies. I doubt that even if every LTC holder quit patronizing posted businesses, they would suddenly change their minds due to financial reasons, because we only represent 4% of the overall population.

I think the main animosity comes from the fact that before open carry was passed, most of these businesses, did not post any signage, and never had a problem with CC, but suddenly they not only prohibit, OC, but CC as well. Again, they are well within their rights to do so, but I, along with a lot of other people, believe that they were given bad information, and were frightened into their decisions.

I am fortunate, in that none of the businesses, that I patronized before open carry passed, have posted 30.06. I use the word fortunate to say that business owners decisions have not greatly affected me. That may not be the case for all of us, and I can understand those, who may live in rural areas, where their options are limited on businesses to patronize, who are now suddenly forced to disarm to do the same things they did before open carry passed, may have more of a reason to complain.
by Jusme
Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:50 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?
Replies: 79
Views: 15817

Re: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Russell wrote:I'm just a drop in the bucket, but after Kroger opened up fairly close to our HEB we have stopped going to HEB all together. Not just because the wife prefers the produce at Kroger, but also because I no longer have to untuck my shirt to go grocery shopping.

HEB is nice and all, but Kroger is equally nice and more 2A friendly.

I've called HEB out on their Facebook page, pointing out that to date no OCer has caused a mass shooting in Kroger. Unsurprisingly they haven't responded. They bill themselves as a bunch of good old down-home Texas loving country folk yet were among the firsts to quickly put up 30.07 signs state wide. Hypocrites.
One of my big problems is with those companies that decided to come out publicly against OC before there was any experience that could show there might be issues, and in some cases, well before the law even went into effect. Whataburger is a big offender here, IMHO. I have no idea what they were trying to accomplish with their immediate reaction. It's not like they were in danger of losing customers to competitors since all the other fast food places took the more responsible approach of waiting to make a decision after evidence was available, post 1/1/16. I feel similarly about HEB, and I definitely make an effort to avoid both of those companies' locations.


:iagree:

I think the majority of the companies that chose to post 30.07 so quickly were pressured by groups like MDA, and were actually persuaded that if they didn't post, two things would happen. First they would be subjected to massive boycotts, which would never have happened there weren't enough members to pull that off, and second their businesses would be overrun by camo wearing mouth breathers carrying everything form slingshots to RPG, into their businesses. Some of the "in your face" open carry demonstrators didn't help because the media instantly gave them plenty of air time carrying AR 15's and AK 47's which had absolutely nothing to do with the Open Carry law.
by Jusme
Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:31 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?
Replies: 79
Views: 15817

Re: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?

Liberty wrote:
apvonkanel wrote:
I think your sentiment regarding 30.07 is spot on. I would even go so far as to say that 30.06 does not explicitly mean anti-gun. It's an "All chickens are birds, but not all birds are chickens" situation. To some 30.07 is dress-code to some it's political. While I would say that most 30.06 is anti-gun, I can't say that every single business posting 30.06 is anti-gun. Until I speak with the person on whom the final decision rested I can't say that I know why they posted it. I can assume that it's usually anti-gun, but to assume that it's always anti-gun is to assume that I know everything about the business. 30.07 can be anti-gun, or it can be smart business. Honestly, I don't blame a business that wants to keep revenue from both the moderately pro 2A and moderately anti-gun sides. 30.07 (without 30.06) only alienates the more severe advocates of either side, while maintaining the bulk of a customer base. Unless you started a business purely on constitutional principal, I assume you wanted some revenue from the business. Finding a compromise that maintains the largest customer base is just financially sound.

That being said: since the bulk of my revenue does not come from a business I own, anything I'm saying is just armchair QB talk anyway.
I always thought that most 30.07 signs are pretty silly. I don't see Walmart or Krogers losing any money because they haven't posted signs. There are a lot fewer rabid anti's her than most of us believe, but I do believe that HEB has lost some customers over these signs. Maybe just a very small percentage, but no retail business likes to lose even a small percentage of customers.

If the HEB in Burleson has lost customers I have no evidence of it. In fact I schedule my shopping for the least crowded times to avoid the crowds.
I think fewer businesses, especially new businesses, are posting any signs.

On a side note, I met and spoke with an LTC holder at HEB, who I had seen a couple of times obviously printing. He was wearing on one occasion, a "come and take it" t-shirt and the next time one with the 2A printed on it. I spoke to him the second time I saw him and asked what he was carrying, he looked shocked :shock: although with the tight t-shirt over an OWB holster, I could see everything but the brand name. :mrgreen: He said it was a Sig 10mm. We talked while waiting at the deli counter, he said he very seldom OC but didn't worry too much about printing, he said no one had ever noticed it before. I told him I had seen him a week or so earlier, and described the t-shirt he was wearing. I was wearing a button up shirt untucked over mine but he said had I not said anything, he would have never noticed.
by Jusme
Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?
Replies: 79
Views: 15817

Re: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?

Wag2323 wrote:
Glock4ever wrote:
Steve5115 wrote:Absolutely! :nono:
So if you were in a car accident and needed life saving emergency room care you would refuse it if they were posted? Give your life up for the cause?
I would say in that situation he wouldn't even be in the position to make his own choice.

I think being wheeled in on a stretcher would probably preclude any charges being filed for carrying past a sign. JMHO.
by Jusme
Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:38 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?
Replies: 79
Views: 15817

Re: Do you refuse to do business with 30.06 & 30.07 businesses?

I do everything I can to avoid businesses who post 30.06, I will cover up at a 30.07 posted business. I am fortunate in that there are very few businesses in my area, that post either sign. HEB is one exception. (30.07) I can find other options for the businesses that post 30.06. The only place I have been in the past year that posted 30.06 was hospitals to visit friends or relatives, and I have not even bought anything out of a vending machine there.

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