Search found 5 matches

by KBCraig
Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:43 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Soccer mom loses PA permit
Replies: 47
Views: 5203

Re: Soccer mom loses PA permit

Nintao wrote:
bridge wrote: ...the anti-gun panel member...
As with all the "Antis", until something bad happens to them, they will continue to push their views on everyone else.
I haven't verified for myself, but I read in another forum, that his brother was killed with a Mac-10. While in a police station! :shock:

So yeah, that obviously translates from a NJ police station (the most gun-controlled locale in the country), to a small-town PA youth soccer game, where unlicensed OC is perfectly legal. :roll:

Good job, Meleanie!
by KBCraig
Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:40 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Soccer mom loses PA permit
Replies: 47
Views: 5203

Re: Soccer mom loses PA permit

bridge wrote:
I watched all 45 minutes of this and all I can say is Wow. The tongue and cheek stats being thrown out by the anti's was interesting. In the last 15 minutes of the show a woman called in to share her story of avoiding assault by using her concealed weapon and the anti-gun panel member all but called her a liar. He said she never should have pulled her weapon and should have just screamed and shouted. Unbelievable.
He was from Ceasefire New Jersey. I think what he actually said, when asked whether he supported the right the woman confront in the ladies room to defend herself, was, "I support her right to scream for help."

I can't stand shows in that format, which is why I had to watch that broken up into segments of just a few minutes, over a period of three days. I finally finished it Saturday, right after my son's U6 soccer game. ;-)

Concealed carry only, though, since this is Texas, plus it was 48 degrees with winds of 15-25mph.
by KBCraig
Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:35 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Soccer mom loses PA permit
Replies: 47
Views: 5203

Re: Soccer mom loses PA permit

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Again, I acknowledge that my fears may be unfounded, but I would like to see open-carry supporters also admit that they may be wrong. The business community may react more strongly than they anticipate. It's the "it'll never happen here" attitude I find troubling.
I gladly admit that I might be wrong, but "wrong" depends on what OC statute gets passed, if any actually does. Depending on the statute, the "business community" reaction might be irrelevant.

I don't believe any OC supporters have claimed "it'll never happen here". I, and others, have pointed out that "it" (widespread bans of concealed carry) hasn't happened anywhere else in response to legal open carry. Why do opponents believe Texas businesses owner and/or voters are more influential than in other states?

The argument that none of the active OC states have passed legislation allowing legal OC in the last few years, is a bit misleading. Many of those states have only passed "must issue" CC after Florida and Texas, but OC, despite being legal, was uncommon, as you point out. In some cases, particularly Virginia and Pennsylvania, OC increased in popularity after concealed carry passed, and after statewide preemption took effect. The only reaction in Virginia from businesses and the legislature was a bill (vetoed by the governor) that would allow concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. (A quirk in VA law only bans concealed carry there, leading to the "Virginia tuck", because open carry is legal in those restaurants.)
by KBCraig
Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:44 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Soccer mom loses PA permit
Replies: 47
Views: 5203

Re: Soccer mom loses PA permit

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
KBCraig wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:However, we should note that the reaction of the non-carrying people at this public event is exactly what I fear would happen in Texas.
What, impotent fuming by the other side, while the actual law is followed?
This one incident happened in a public area and involved a sheriff who overstepped his authority. The end result was correct, because it involved solely a question of law.

I've made it clear in other posts that I don't believe reaction to open-carry in Texas would result in significant changes to our laws. (That opinion may change in November if the Democrats make significant inroads in the Texas Legislature.)
The gun culture in Texas and Pennsylvania are pretty similar. Both are mostly rural states with a strong heritage of hunting and firearms ownership. Both have some metropolitan areas that believe they should be above state law, but they are kept in check by strong preemption and court rulings (PA has actually strengthened their preemption in recent years).

The biggest difference is that PA licenses are issued by sheriffs, some of whom try to impose their own limitations, just like this case. They are consistently overturned by the courts, and there hasn't been any successful movement to weaken gun laws, despite an anti-gun governor and Democrat majority in their house of representatives.

My concern lies with the likely response from the business community. If this incident happened in a Texas Home Depot, the parents who objected to the lady in PA carrying at a ball park would also complain to the Home Depot Manager. I am very concerned that this manager would choose to post 30.06 signs, rather than risk his store's profitability and his compensation. This would apply equally to any business whether or not they are part of a major chain. Remember, Texas CHLs make up less than 3% of the population. This means a business owner can ban guns and risk alienating 3% of the population, or he can refuse to respond to customer complaints and risk alienating the 97% of Texans who are not CHLs.
I believe your concern is excessive. Why would Texas businesses react differently from those in other states? In the case of Home Depot and other major chains, almost all follow the Wal-Mart model: their policy is to follow the laws of the state in which the store is located. If open carry causes undue concern in a particular store, the customer may be asked to conceal (if legal), or leave. They don't ban all carry just because someone openly carries there.

Even when someone is asked to leave, it's usually an overzealous employee rather than a worried member of the public. Anecdotal reports on opencarry.org show that following up with national headquarters usually resolves the problem in favor of the person openly carrying. Home Depot (to use your example) has specifically clarified on multiple occasions that they don't ban lawful gun owners, and that store managers are not free to impose their own gun policy. Same with Wal-Mart. Same with Best Buy. Same with Sam's.

One exception is Costco, which has an anti-gun national policy. They don't usually post legally binding notices, but they will enforce the policy if someone carrying comes to their attention.

To borrow an analogy about overstated fears, I really don't worry that the streets will be flowing with 30.06 notices if legal open carry passes in Texas. Texans were proven to not be more likely to gun each other down over fender-benders when concealed carry passed. I don't think Texans will be any more likely than other states to OC if the law changes. I also don't think Texas businesses will be any more likely to ban carry than their counterparts in other states, especially if they are part of a natinal chain.
by KBCraig
Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:56 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Soccer mom loses PA permit
Replies: 47
Views: 5203

Re: Soccer mom loses PA permit

Charles L. Cotton wrote:However, we should note that the reaction of the non-carrying people at this public event is exactly what I fear would happen in Texas.
What, impotent fuming by the other side, while the actual law is followed?

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