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The Annoyed Man wrote:I wonder why the no-CHL policy in the first place? Did he explain why he wanted it that way? As a long time believer and student of the Bible myself, I can find no justification in the Bible for disarming a parishioner prior to granting him/her admission to the church. What I do find are elliptical references to being at peace, peaceful, a peacemaker, etc., etc. But one can be at peace and armed. One can be peaceful and armed. One can be a peacemaker and armed. Peace, and being armed are not mutually exclusive propositions - as even Jesus instructed the Apostles in Luke 22:36.

In my book, a church that tells its members that they should not be armed before entering, is also a church that would tell its female members not to wear lacy panties under their dresses to church, or tell its male members not to wear red undershirts under their dress shirts. It's an invasion of one's personal choices, and the church would have no way of knowing unless the member shared that information...

....all with the following caveat: obeying a command to not wear a red t-shirt or lacy panties will not likely get you killed, whereas obeying an order to not CCW may very well get you killed. That's not an area over wich any church ought to have any moral authority in my view. It tells me that this church is more concerned about their rules than they are about my life or health. I would have a lot of difficulty accepting spiritual direction from someone who had such little concern about it. And having an unarmed security detail (if made up of church members, it would HAVE to be unarmed, since your CHL does not grant you authority to carry as a security person) is not as good as being able to defend yourself in extremis.

I realize that, as a newcomer, you're trying to do right by your girlfriend and her family, since this is their home church. But if I were in your shoes, I would not attend with the goal of making this church my church home. If/When you get married, I would start church shopping - if not sooner.

Frankly I don't why the no CHL policy either. No, he never really explained why he wanted it that way. This particular LEO didn't make me feel any better either by saying he was unarmed. I am not nor will I be a "security guard" of any sort. Yes, we plan on getting married soon enough and are planning on looking at other Churches in the area to make our Church.

TxA wrote:

dicion wrote:Now, something else to ponder... Could Stephen Hawking give 'Oral' notice?

In a church?

austinrealtor wrote:

ELB wrote:Carrying all by itself is serious business, even if there is no shooting involved.

great way to put it.

When discussing CHL with non licensees who are interested, I sometimes get the question "Have you ever had to use your gun?" I respond quite seriously "I USE my gun every day."

The simple act of carrying a gun is using it to improve my odds of surviving a violent attack. It's not a clothing accessory. It's a serious and sobering responsbility, and a potentially life-saving tool.

By staying in the mindset that I am USING my gun every time I carry it, I am better able to keep it in proper context and not become complacent. Carrying my gun every day is a conscious act, not merely a mindless routine.

Very well said.

flb_78 wrote:Sounds like a range day is in order with the preacherman.

This could happen. I don't believe he is anti 2A by any means. Could it be that he doesn't know me at all, could be. Only time will tell.

dicion wrote:

elwood blooz wrote:... He also mentioned that he wasn't carrying his weapon....

Second.... the LEO had no authority to tell you not to carry there (not being the owner, or representative of the owner). But by taking it further, If the preacher told you not to carry there, however, THAT qualifies as notice under 30.06. You pretty much messed up there.

The only reason I went to the preacher was because it is my GF parents church. This isn't our first time to visit, being I believed he had already been told or saw what happened, I wanted to make sure he heard what happened from me rather than the rumor saying I dropped a Bazooka. If this hadn't been their church then I would not have approached the preacher at all.

Let me set the scene, service on Wednesdays are held in the rec center, round tables with six or seven chairs at each. There are about 15 tables plus rows of chairs to the left of the building, this is usually where drinks and desserts are kept along with the sound man. There are always at least four or five people sitting there.
My GF and her parents (who are members) are sitting at an outside table about three rows back, two people to my left with GF and her parents to my right.
I recently got my XD back from the gunsmith and decided to carry it last night instead of my 1911. Each weapon has two extra mags but the 1911 mags are pocket carried and XD mags are in belt held mag holder.

I'm not a large guy, right at six foot, 200 lbs but after sitting in the plastic chairs for a while I began stirring looking for the comfort zone. About half way through the service I hear a loud "clank" on the tile floor and realize that one of my mags had hit the floor. I picked it up immediately and put it under my leg until I can store it in GF purse during closing prayer. I knew that several people had heard and saw the magazine hit the floor.

Service ended and we begin to depart, GF and mom in front of me, her dad behind me. As we got closer to the door I hear my name being called from behind. A gentleman approaches me and says, I understand that you dropped a "clip" (his words) are you carrying a gun? I asked respectfully and you are? Being a visitor, there are many I don't know. He pulls his ID from his breast pocket which shows him to be a Sheriffs Deputy and I inform him that I am indeed carrying and that I haven't broken any laws by doing so. He agreed and said that the church frowns on weapons in the church and that they have several LEO in the congregation other than himself to look over everything. He also mentioned that he wasn't carrying his weapon. He asked me to leave it in the vehicle from now on. He also mentioned something about the preacher not understanding these things.

This was eating at my GF and I, being we're visitors and all, plus it being her parents church. So I go back inside to apologize to the preacher for the disruption. I was led to believe that the preacher knew what had happened earlier, or maybe that's just the way I "heard" it. I found the preacher and spoke to him about what had happened and he thanked me for discussing it with him, he did not know or see it happen, he told me not to loose any sleep over this because it's not a big deal but he would like me to leave it outside for the time being. He also informed me that the church is currently getting a security detail together and someone may get with me in the future on this.

So, I don't like the idea of leaving my weapon outside during service. We usually don't go right home after service, we may stop for a bite, store, etc. It's not in a bad area but that doesn't mean a thing in this day and time. I was asked by two people of authority to leave my weapon in the vehicle for the time being.

Lets discuss...