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by sixer-sxt-3.7
Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:52 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Posted but manager says ignore it?
Replies: 49
Views: 8101

Re: Posted but manager says ignore it?

Mike S wrote:Here's the actual statutes; I highlighted in blue the part about it being an offense without effective consent:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
...


Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.
...

The signs you referenced merely satisfies "written notice" if you are carrying openly/concealed under the authority of your LTC, on someone else's property, without their consent.
That's a really good catch! Seeing the full text, one has to both have received notice and "not have" effective consent (which means an affirmative approval, it seems like) in order to be breaking the law. Since we rarely ever ask for effective consent to open or conceal, then the first requirement, 30.06/7 (1), is almost always fulfilled - by way of not having a thing required - so we are not excused.

Having an effective consent means that both (1) and (2) are not fulfilled, so the actor can continue to carry. Very good point.
by sixer-sxt-3.7
Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:21 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Posted but manager says ignore it?
Replies: 49
Views: 8101

Re: Posted but manager says ignore it?

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:
30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...
30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...
Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

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