TexasCHLforum.com

It appears I am a hardcore libertarian. Yet, I struggle with the wasted vote. I know that seriously annoys the ron paul folks, but I'll
usually take an average republican over a good democrat. I don't want to vote for the guy who garners a 6% finish.

TxDrifter wrote:

PSLOwner wrote:I'm not asking for support of the president. I really don't care who anyone voted for or supports.

I'm just saying that it would be nice to have actual second amendment political discussions based upon facts, not just the same old "he is coming to get us, you count on it" nonsense.

From what I can actually tell, there are no pending bills or laws to limit our 2A rights. I don't care what someone said on the campaign trail (I doubt any politician would be able to withstand that kind of review!) to ditto-heads to sound good during a speach. What has he actually done? The only thing he has done 2A related is to sign into law ALLOWING us to carry in national parks. If he was really intent on banning hand guns (which he could never do), why sign that bill. He is a democrat and they dont have the best history on gun rights (to put it mildly!), so we have to be aware, but I think we can do it with resorting to rumors.

There is one that just passed: Healthcare... http://gunowners.org/a100909.htm The CDC (Center for Disease Control) is attempting to start studies for gun statistics again and it is presumed this may be a back door to control gun ownership. http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... ?id=509943 http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6971 Admittedly this is currently opinion and not fact, but something to be wary of. It won't take away the right, but it might make it very expensive to practice it. One of the items that may have been one of those 200 supposed Republican amendments may have been one to restrict them from using gun statistics. I don't recall if it got in or not and didn't search for a link.

I agree that we need to start ignoring party and vote on principles and values. BTW, want to find out what your positions pinpoint you in? Try this: http://www.nolanchart.com/survey.php You might be surprised at the result, I know I was.

FYI, I didn't vote for McCain or Obama, but I did vote and fill in the Presidential choice.

Oh, and now CNN polls. Do any major poll have him anything but upside down?

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:For those old enough to remember, or smart enough to recognize; it was the un-declared and uncalled for war in Iraq along with the Republican's failure to address domestic issues; e.g., the failing economy, Social Security, Medicare, Health Care, RKBA, bank and mortgage company failures, etc. ad nauseum, that got Obama elected.

What say you that?

I say that the last two years of the Bush Presidency were run by democrats in congress, not Republicans. i say that the financial implosion was a direct result of Democrat imposed legislation attempting to make housing easier to access for minorities. Dropping lending standards and even putting pressure on lenders to make mortgage money more available to low income minorities created the environment that instigated the bad loans to begin with. Maxine Waters and Barney Franks both claimed everything was Okey Dokie just two years before the collapse. Nope... it was good intentions as usual... mostly inspired by Clinton.

Lets us also not forget that before we went into Iraq, Many of these same sewage swilling democrats that hurl accusations at Bush stood up in congress and stated emphatically that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. They were operating off the same information Bush had.

The real reason Odumbell got elected is that Odumbell was framed as the young hip rap star and McCain was framed as needing pampers. It was cool to vote Obama at the time. Most of the folks who voted for Odumbell don't have a clue about what is going on in the world and have gone back to not having a clue.

Couldn't have said it better. And I recall us dumping into a recession in the tail end of 99, with a declining GDP following the .com bust. Frankly, I don't recall W blaming Clinton for that, not even once did I see that. Obama's choice to continue the blame game is wearing thin on America, as evident in the
current gallup and rassmussen polls today, where he is seriously free falling.

You didn't have a problem voting for Bill again after the 1993 gun ban?

PSLOwner wrote:Am I messing with anyone, uh no. All I saw in the first link was one questionnaire, did not see all the other information until the last post, hence me thanking someone for posting it.

As a registered independant, I like to see and read all the information available before making up my mind on candidates and issues. I have no more respect for left wing rantings (e.g. "Bush is going to arrest everyone who disagrees with his wire tapping policies") than I do right wing rantings. It's more interesting and fun to discuss actual facts than nonsense. Reagan was the first president I was old enough to vote for and I did not regret that. I voted for Bush Sr. his first time, then Clinton twice, then Bush Jr. once, the finally Obama. I was never more disappointed in my life than when I saw who the democrats trotted out in 2004.... John Kerry. Man, they could not have picked a better example of a liberal, out of touch pinhead. He looks like someone who never drank beer out of a can in his life.

I would love to know what the NRA plans on doing the next two plus years for us.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

PSLOwner wrote: If he was really intent on banning hand guns (which he could never do), why sign that bill. He is a democrat and they dont have the best history on gun rights (to put it mildly!), so we have to be aware, but I think we can do it with resorting to rumors.

He had no choice in that one. it was attached to the credit card reform bill, so he would have had to shoot himself in the foot to keep it from happening. The only reason he hasn't attacked gun rights yet is that he has been busy trying to destroy the country with government take over of health care. After he has completed that mission, he will come for the guns. If you can really read that link I sent you and still think this socialist president is not going to make a grab for your guns, you are sadly mistaken.

One hundred percent agree. Anyone here who actually thinks Obama wanted to vote for the parks bill is delusional.

PSLOwner wrote:I'm not asking for support of the president. I really don't care who anyone voted for or supports.

I'm just saying that it would be nice to have actual second amendment political discussions based upon facts, not just the same old "he is coming to get us, you count on it" nonsense.

From what I can actually tell, there are no pending bills or laws to limit our 2A rights. I don't care what someone said on the campaign trail (I doubt any politician would be able to withstand that kind of review!) to ditto-heads to sound good during a speach. What has he actually done?

Ah, so his candidate speeches are just words right?

Lets look at some actual votes, since that's all that matters to you. A bit of repitition, but nonetheless terrifying. I wish it was only the gun issue that I find so despicable about the president, but I can give you about another 20 issues that turn my stomach.


Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)

2007 In 2007 Gun Owners of America gave President Obama a grade of F.

2006 President Obama supported the interests of the Gun Owners of America 100 percent in 2006.

2005 President Obama supported the interests of the Gun Owners of America 0 percent in 2005.

2004 Based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionnaire sent to all state legislative candidates in 2004, the National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund assigned President Obama a grade of F (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F).

2002 Based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionnaire sent to all state legislative candidates in 2002, the National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund assigned President Obama a grade of F (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F).

1998 Based on a questionnaire and the votes that National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund considered to be the most important in 1998, they have assigned President Obama a grade of F (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F-).


And THIS below is only up until 2004.
* 1994 to 2001 – Obama was on the board of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. This foundation is the largest funding source for radical anti-gun groups in the country.
* 1996 – Obama supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.
* 1999 – Obama proposed a 500 percent increase in the excise taxes on firearms and ammunition. This tax would effectively punish gun owners for buying guns and ammunition.
* 2003 – Obama voted in support of legislation that would have banned privately owned hunting shotguns, target rifles and black powder rifles in Illinois.
* 2004 – Obama voted against legislation intended to protect homeowners from prosecution in cases where they used a firearm to halt a home invasion.

PSLOwner wrote:

lawrnk wrote:

PSLOwner wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:One more thing, that last little part of your question was unnecessary. You must be parroting what you hear liberal biased media saying since you accuse others of doing this.

No, dont listen to crap like that. Just when other say "they know" without ANYTHING to back that up, then follow with reflex buzz words like "socialism" and "liberal biased media" when comments like that are challenged, that tells me pretty much what I need to know.

Sir, I'm really glad you are on this forum. I really am. We sometimes get Obama supporters on here, and we try and talk to them. I really hope (and I kinda avoid use of that word nowadays) you will realize that what happened in Australia pales in comparison to what the democrats really want. We have democrats on this forum. Some claim to be 80% liberal, 90% democrat, and 100% supporter of the second. It's like saying I'm vegetarian on only tuesdays. It's frankly, and I mean this from a clinical sense, idiotic. (the term idiot is no longer a classification in psychology.)

Wow, you try and "talk to them" and you cannot vote for a democrat from time to time and support the constitution at the same time? Frankly, that is prima facie ludicrous. The constitituion applies to everyone, not just those that always vote republican. The level of intolerance being shown by people on both parties is sickening. If Obama said "Lab puppies are cute", Rush Limbaugh would come out and call puppies the devil. If George Bush would have said "kittens are cute", Al Sharpton would come out and call Bush a racist. This needs to stop...... no one listens to what anyone else thinks.

Sir, you are on a gun forum. What sort of support did you expect for the "community organizer?"

PSLOwner wrote:Hey, maybe the fat laws will lead to the "diet chicken mcnugget". Think of the marketing potential!

But yeah, I DID vote for Obama (needed a change after Bush and McCain ran 8 years too late), but I dont trust any of them farther than I can throw them.... well, maybe less than I can throw them.

Good thing about elections every four years, if you dont like what you see...... do something about it.

Hey, its ok. I voted for McCain. And I held my dang nose while doing it. Most of us did. McCain's a fine man. A war hero even. Generally, I like the man. I love his opinion on right to life, his service... I dislike his infidelity, gun show loop holes, and despicable opinion on the borders. But...we all make mistakes. Odds are, and your profile shows nada, that you are under 30, and maybe you got swept in to the hype. No ones perfect.

PSLOwner wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:One more thing, that last little part of your question was unnecessary. You must be parroting what you hear liberal biased media saying since you accuse others of doing this.

No, dont listen to crap like that. Just when other say "they know" without ANYTHING to back that up, then follow with reflex buzz words like "socialism" and "liberal biased media" when comments like that are challenged, that tells me pretty much what I need to know.

Sir, I'm really glad you are on this forum. I really am. We sometimes get Obama supporters on here, and we try and talk to them. I really hope (and I kinda avoid use of that word nowadays) you will realize that what happened in Australia pales in comparison to what the democrats really want. We have democrats on this forum. Some claim to be 80% liberal, 90% democrat, and 100% supporter of the second. It's like saying I'm vegetarian on only tuesdays. It's frankly, and I mean this from a clinical sense, idiotic. (the term idiot is no longer a classification in psychology.)

PSLOwner wrote:

lawrnk wrote: I believe the man to be the worst enemy of the 2nd,.

Based off of anything substantive, or what AM radio is telling you to parrot?

One day, I'd love to pick your brain about the PSL. Everyone says they are ugly, but I love em.
But I digress. I'd love to hear the other side, where Obama is a supporter of any gun rights?
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/barack_ ... ontrol.htm

I'd take old bill in a second over this worthless man. But, the beauty is he doesn't even have the support of his own party. He can't get anything passed. I believe the man to be the worst enemy of the 2nd, but I am grateful that his political impotence keeps festering.

For being at least smart enough to stay clear of riding on any gun bans last year. So, literally, thanks for doing nothing. I suspect that while you were "organizing" with acorn in 94, you remember the beat down your party took in 94. And I'd like to thank the NRA for making that possible. Even Clinton admitted the NRA played the big part in the 94 democrat's demise. Of course, with obama being a downhill hot potato no one wants to be near (except Sheila Jackson lee) I doubt Obama could pass gas after this november.