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mr.72 wrote:FWIW the first 50 rounds I ran through my Sigma were the green box (brass) 9mm Monarch. The rounds are not nearly as hot as the Winchester white box that I have been using ever since. We had multiple FTF's and it did not have enough force to cause the slide to lock back on the last round. Also the casings did not eject more than a few inches from the gun and one of them even went down my wife's shirt while she was shooting (that seemed to get her attention!). When I moved to the WWB it was readily apparent just from recoil difference how much hotter the WWB is vs. the Monarch. The gun functioned flawlessly from that point forward, ejecting the brass 15 feet away and locking the slide back when empty every time. You can buy the WWB at Wal Mart for the same price as the Monarch brass 9mm from Academy. It's a no-brainer. The WWB is in a whole different class.

I have run over 400 rounds of WWB subsequently through my Sigma without a single failure of any kind. Never will I touch the Monarch ammo again.

I have ran lots of Monarch green box through my Sigma with no problems at all. One thing I think you may have failed to think about is the Sigma is not really broken in until about 500 rounds. The later boxes of WWB worked well, but the Monarch may have worked better too. While I would agree WWB is superior ammo, I wouldn't count the Monarch out. Due to the difference in price, I will use it for practice if it functions well.

NcongruNt wrote:

iwannasee wrote:I shoot it for target practice in my PA-63 and my Norinco 54-1 with 9mm barrel installed. Its dirty and smelly, but it functions just fine in these two pistols. Good blasting ammo.

I wasn't aware Monarch made 9x18 ammo. Where did you get it?

The Academy in Plano stocks both 9x19 Parabellum and 9x18 Makarov in Monarch blue box.

TDDude wrote:I shoot a Beretta cougar and I used to shoot wolf until my pistol got so hot one day the lacquer caused a case to stick in my barrel to where the extractor couldn't pull it out. The extractor simply slipped over the case lip and that CAN'T BE GOOD.

Also, the lacquer doesn't slip as well as brass so I was getting rounds stuck in the mags occasionally.

I don't know if any of this actually harms the pistol but I'd rather not fool with it.

Was it really lacquer (really polymer) build-up or possibly the issue listed in the Box-O-Truth test that the steel doesn't expand as well and blow-back around the case is fouling the chamber? I would suspicion the latter, but it is plausible that the polymer could melt off the case if hot enough.

htxred wrote:well brass is softer then steel so steel on steel would cause more damage then brass on steel.

Without doing a hardness test on the steel vs. brass cases, we can only assume that the steel is harder. Some steel is very soft, and brass can be called brass, but have alloys that can make it harder. Case thickness will also play into the picture.

In this scenario, I would assume that the steel case alone would be harder than their brass cases. However, you have to factor in the layer of polymer coating. The coating may actually be softer than brass (I would assume it is), so these may not have as much of a wear component to them as a plain brass case.

Abraham wrote:All above good information, but my question remains unanswered: Does anyone KNOW if steel cased ammo really is tougher on guns or does it just seem like it makes sense to think so?

And a follow up: Is there such a thing as pistols designed with different internal metallurgy in order to withstand steel cased rounds or is this also conjecture?

Anyone here have a definitive answer or are we all in the dark on this?

Thanks

The only test I could find was from Box-O-Truth on rifle ammo http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

Their basic conclusion is the polymer or lacquer finishes don't 'gum up the chamber' by melting. However, the steel casing does not expand as much as brass or aluminum when fired, and therefore will cause your chamber to foul since it doesn't block the gasses from coming back around the casing. If you follow up with brass or aluminum cased ammo, it is possible it will jam in the fouled chamber since it expands more, thus causing more stress on your extractor or possible FTF/FTB issues.

I don't think the steel casing hardness is going to be that big an issue since Monarch or Wolf steel cases are polymer coated. If the case lip is dragging over the ramp, then it might be possible as there is minimal coating at that point. But, in a properly functioning weapon there should be minimal contact at the lip point. The polymer coating should be as soft or softer than brass or aluminum and shouldn't cause issues where it contacts the metal of your ramp and chamber.

My theory.

TDDude wrote:It's metal cased. Unless you have an eastern block gun I'd stay away.

It is less expensive.

I thought all cases were metal?

I think what you meant, is it is steel cased, coated with Teflon. It is very similar to Wolf steel case stuff. I have ran a box through my Sigma .40 and my Kahr PM9, and had no trouble. With the coating on the case, I don't see any issues with wear on the gun over what brass would do. The only negative I can see is it is not reloadable.