TexasCHLforum.com

labrat1001001 wrote:Maybe I’m being a little obtuse, but I didn’t see a gun when the contact was leaning back into his vehicle, I only saw black leather. Isn’t there some legal difference here?

chasfm11 wrote:

Keith B wrote: Appearance is one of the major factors that will definitely sway a LEO. It is basically all they have to go on when making a stop before they get to interact with the subject. While they may not be prejudice overall, first appearances are everything to everyone. We all judge someone we see when them approach us. That is what makes us go on alert or stay in condition yellow.

This very reason is why I state you should stay in your vehicle with the weapon concealed, and when they approach make sure you let them know you have a CHL and are armed. In Texas, you must do this when asked for ID by law, so it is smart to do it as soon as possible to let the officer you you are forthcoming and are not trying to hide anything.

In general, I agree with what you are saying but seek a couple of clarifications.

1. Judging only by appearance is profiling. While I understand, at some level, the need to do that, it can have the result of discrimination if it is allowed to go too far. Since it has the potential for abuse, it is an area where constant emphasis by departments should be placed. To me, there is a big difference between me using Situational Awareness to keep an eye on those who appear to be more of a threat to me than others and a LEO using profiling to take actions against citizens. One is passive, the other is aggressive. What say you?

2. When taking action, one's motives are sometimes displayed. The officer in this case, I believe, betrayed some of his underlying thought process and it wasn't for the better of himself or his fellow officers. If he had methodically just taken control of the situation, even to the point of putting the man on the ground and handcuffing him, I would have been a lot more OK with it. The threats to shoot an otherwise compliant citizen and his foray into abusive language are as much about "appearance" as anything that the citizen did.

RottenApple wrote:

Gameover wrote:Watched this the other day. I think if he would of just said he had a gun on him and had a permit to carry the stop would have went differently. I understand that he is not required to tell him anything but I think its better he finds out from you rather then spotting it himself. Just my .02

I disagree. Under FL law he is not required to notify unless asked and, judging by this cops completely unprofessional attitude and behavior, it most likely would have gone even worse. Officers like this give the rest a bad name.

790.06 …. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

JALLEN wrote:

Keith B wrote:
BTW, I am a former LEO and this is how I would want it handled. I believe most LEO's would prefer this method.

This is very sound, reasonable and rational. The trouble is, it is not universal, and you never know when you are going to be confronted by irrationality. If we could count on cops "doing the right thing" it would be easy.

I think one of this fellow's problems was his appearance. I imagine, because I cannot know, that approaching a driver who is younger, ill-groomed, haphazardly dressed, etc is a much different proposition than someone like me, old, pudgy, dignified, jovial, etc.

My youngest son used to sport dreadlocks, when he was young and foolish, one of the few whites I've ever seen with that peculiar hairdo, and drove a typical impoverished young person's car. He got pulled over and searched for drugs about every third time he ventured out. I'm sure he had far more stops in 5 years than I've had in 50. Busted tail lights, expired tags, a car meeting that description reported stolen, just about every excuse to light him up imaginable.

S_3 wrote:Interesting video. This is a perfect example of why you should avoid letting cops know you have a gun. Don't let him see it. Don't let him smell it. Don't let him hear you tell him about the gun or a license or anything that might trigger him. What he doesn't know can't hurt you.