TexasCHLforum.com

dogflight wrote:

srothstein wrote:Actually, the parking lot is part of the licensed premises and this is where quite a bit of the case law on weapons on licensed premises comes from. But, the non-chl would not be committing a crime because the law allows guns in cars. For non-51% locations, the law on licensed premises is still part of 46.02 and we know that allows car carry now. The non-chl is not affected by 46.035 since he cannot carry outside of the car anyway.

Could you cite some of that case law? I'm not seeing how the Penal Code definition of "premises", 46.035(f)(3), is in any way legally modified by the term "licensed premises" used by TABC for the regulation of alcohol-related businesses.

I was referred to this thread from another based on this thought: while TABC could license a bar in the middle of a parking lot and the 51% rule would apply in the bar, the parking lot itself would still be just that - a parking lot - and the 51% prohibition on CHL carry would not apply.

If my understanding of PC 46.035 is indeed wrong, I'll need to modify my instructional material to match, so would really appreciate any references.

Thank you.

srothstein wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

srothstein wrote:The legal question that will need to be settled by the court is if the key word in the Penal Code is "premises" or if it is the phrase "licensed premises". If premises is the definition, you can carry on the patio. If the phrase "licensed premises" takes premises, you cannot carry in the parking lot or on the patio or anywhere else covered by the license.

Does that mean someone without a CHL would be committing a felony if they have a gun in their car at a convenience store that includes the parking lot in the TABC premises?

No. Convenience stores are not licensed for on-premise consumption, so the parking lot would not be part of the licensed premise. An unlicensed person carrying a pistol into a convenience store would be illegal and the penalty is higher for carrying into a place that is licensed to sell alcohol for off-premise consumption.

In the case of a 51% location licensed for on-premise consumption, I would also think that the parking lot would not be part of the licensed premise, although it could be if it were set up to do a lot of parking lot concerts, parties, etc. Just a regular bar parking lot would normally not be part of the licensed premise though.

Actually, the parking lot is part of the licensed premises and this is where quite a bit of the case law on weapons on licensed premises comes from. But, the non-chl would not be committing a crime because the law allows guns in cars. For non-51% locations, the law on licensed premises is still part of 46.02 and we know that allows car carry now. The non-chl is not affected by 46.035 since he cannot carry outside of the car anyway.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

srothstein wrote:The legal question that will need to be settled by the court is if the key word in the Penal Code is "premises" or if it is the phrase "licensed premises". If premises is the definition, you can carry on the patio. If the phrase "licensed premises" takes premises, you cannot carry in the parking lot or on the patio or anywhere else covered by the license.

Does that mean someone without a CHL would be committing a felony if they have a gun in their car at a convenience store that includes the parking lot in the TABC premises?

No. Convenience stores are not licensed for on-premise consumption, so the parking lot would not be part of the licensed premise.

I thought drinking in the convenience store parking lot was illegal because it was part of the TABC licensed premises and their license does not allow on-premises consumption.

Hoosier Daddy wrote:

srothstein wrote:The legal question that will need to be settled by the court is if the key word in the Penal Code is "premises" or if it is the phrase "licensed premises". If premises is the definition, you can carry on the patio. If the phrase "licensed premises" takes premises, you cannot carry in the parking lot or on the patio or anywhere else covered by the license.

Does that mean someone without a CHL would be committing a felony if they have a gun in their car at a convenience store that includes the parking lot in the TABC premises?

Ameer wrote:

Keith B wrote:See srothsteins post above http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 80#p810280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I saw it. I also quoted and provided a link for the laws that apply to CHL.

Ameer wrote:

Keith B wrote:No, the 51% law says premises, which includes all areas defined under the license, including sidewalks and patio areas by TABC.

What law is that? I looked at 46.035 in the CHL-16. It says very clearly that somebody with a CHL is not committing an offense under 46.035 by carrying on the sidewalk or parking lot. There's no exception just because the business put tables and chairs on the sidewalk or parking lot.

"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetfo ... chl-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bizarrenormality wrote:The 30.06 law has specific requirements for effective notice. The 51% law specifically says it only applies inside buildings.

If you're worried about the sidewalk because of TABC rules, you should also worry about a gun in your car for the same reason.

bizarrenormality wrote:I don't have a TABC license so I'm not worried about TABC revoking it but discretion is the better part of valor.