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mamabearCali wrote:
Keith B wrote:
mamabearCali wrote: Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.
She was not being chased by three men throwing things at her, she was grabbed by the arm by a LEO in broad daylight. Totally different. While she would have initially been startled, once it was realized it was a police officer, then the fear would have subsided. She threw a fit like a spoiled brat and that is it, plain and simple.

No the fear does not subside and the after effects vary from individual to individual. You cannot tell a person how they should feel after being grabbed from behind. That is like the doctor saying it does not hurt when putting in stitches without lidocaine. It does hurt. She was afraid. The LEO's did not have to escalate things. Aren't they supposed to be trained in critical thinking?

I see you have formed an opionion on this, as have I, and they do not match. Neither of us know for sure what her adrenaline level was after being stopped, but being startled and even the fear should not cause this woman to be cussing the LEO's and refusing to cooperate. That was NOT driven by anything but being spoiled.

I am done with this one.

mamabearCali wrote: Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.

She was not being chased by three men throwing things at her, she was grabbed by the arm by a LEO in broad daylight. Totally different. While she would have initially been startled, once it was realized it was a police officer, then the fear would have subsided. She threw a fit like a spoiled brat and that is it, plain and simple.

Cedar Park Dad wrote: Exactly. In our situation we had a stalker for several years and have CHLs at recommendation of our attorney and the police themselves. She's been taught how to hurt someone who grabs her, breakaway and be in shooting mode when she breaks.
This could have ended very badly.

But this goes back to situational awareness. If you run around with headphones on while carrying and someone makes an stupid but innocent move and grabs your arm or some other method of stopping you, you need to be sure of what you are drawing your gun on.

I will say it again, initial reaction of being startled and pulling away to assess the situation is totally appropriate. Her post reaction, her whining and crying fit and refusing to ID after knowing it was a police officer was not.

EDIT: WildBill bascially beat me to the same answer.

texanjoker wrote:
Keith B wrote:
texanjoker wrote:To mimic what the chief said, I can't believe what passes as controversy on Texas Chl forum .
You don't see this is controversial? While she may have been in the wrong and jaywalked, it is very over the top to physically subdue a person and arrest on this charge.

Controversial and over the top how? They are taking an enforcement action for a violation where many are hit and killed all the time for jaywalking. She didn't stop when lawfully ordered to do so by a uniformed peace officer. Did she not hear them or just ignore them? Who knows. Do you just call kings x and let her go when she doesn't stop or grab a hold of her arm to effect a lawful detention? As a reminder, force can be used to effect an arrest or detention, as long as reasonable and necessary. Since verbal commands didn't work, grabbing her arm while ID one self would be the next step. At one point she even told the uniformed LEO she didn't care who the beep he was showing she knew he was a leo. She also dropped to the ground on her own. She then refused to ID after being lawfully detained for a citable offense. They did not charge her with resisting as some stated in this thread so I have to ask. What do you expect the leo's to do when a person refuses to ID for a citation? Just let them go or arrest them for the appropriate charge of failure to ID? Or should the leo's just let anybody run away and not do their jobs? Now I would not get into a vehicle pursuit, ect over this charge, but grabbing her arm? That is a lot different.

The best part of this incident is the chief's rant. That was epic.

While I don't disagree that arresting someone for failing to ID (verbal or otherwise) when asked is appropriate, we have only seen the video from the point she is already on the ground. Everything before that is eyewitness statements, police officers statements and Acevedo's press conference theatrics, which IMO are over the top as well.

Initially it still goes back to situational awareness and how fast she was able to identify the officer. Like the eyewitness stated, he didn't feel the officer was in her line of vision. Even if he was up beside her if she had her gaze to the opposite side, he may have not been in per peripheral vision. I have a sister-in-law that has no peripheral vision on her left side and unless you are well in front of 90 degrees up she will not know you are there.

Now, once she knew it was a police officer and was being uncooperative and refused to ID, then it changes and the arrest was justified. Before that is 'controversial' and is still open depending on who's account you feel is accurate.

texanjoker wrote:To mimic what the chief said, I can't believe what passes as controversy on Texas Chl forum .

You don't see this is controversial? While she may have been in the wrong and jaywalked, it is very over the top to physically subdue a person and arrest on this charge.

rwilso wrote:This is the kind of out of control law enforcement that we should not tolerate in our society.

Defending this police action makes you a hypocrite in your defense of the 2ed amendment. There are other liberties we have lost too.

I really don't think anyone here is defending their actions, it's just dicussion. However, how would defending this be part of the 2nd amendment?

While I think grabbing someone who was just j-walking is totally out of limits, this does bring up a good point on situational awareness. When you are so wrapped up in your music and have it so loud in your ears that you can't hear someone trying purposely trying to get your attention from behind you, then you sure are not gonna know if someone is trying to sneak up on you. I listen to my music pretty loud in the gym, but I am always aware of the front of the workout area and the doors to see who is outside and who may be looking to get in. My gym uses card readers for access, so it is not just open, but you never know who might have stolen someone's keys and is using their key fob to try and come in.

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