Don't talk to me then. Your right. I was a LEO for 15 years, I simply try to bring in that perspective. The bottom line is simple, the law says he can do it. You can refuse, but it won't end well for you. If I was still on the street, the odds of me disarming most would be slim. But if I asked you to hand over your weapon and you refused, there would be no further discussion you would be treated as an armed gunman at that point and removed from the vehicle at gunpoint. Then you would be taken to jail.
If you have 30-40k to throw at defense attorney to exercise your right to be a stubborn that is up to you.
I am not trying to offend anyone, just I deal in reality. Here is another dose of reality, the majority of this thread deals with something that when looked at state wide rarely happens.
Carry on, carry often.
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Return to “DPS Serial Number Check Strategy”
- Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:36 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
- Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:06 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
Re: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
Folks, this really isn't as complicated as you make it, or want to make it. I realize no matter how simple this gets broke down some here will disagree. That is your right. Hey if we all agreed this board would be real boring!
Let's say you get pulled over. You produce your CHL and DL and the officer inquires are you carrying? You respond yes. At this point the officer has 2 choices, say ok, and let you keep possession of your weapon, or for his own safety, he elects to disarm you.
Note: The law does not say he has to fear for his safety, the law does not state he has to feel threatened. YOU HAVE GUN, he has the authority to disarm you PERIOD! This is not something he has to justify his actions for later. IF the officer feels it is reasonable for his safety to disarm you he can. There is not a level of suspicion required. There is not a court in the land going to admonish the officer. All he has to say is that he did so for his personal safety. That is what he is authorized to do.
Now you have given him your firearm, he will unload it. At this point he has LEGALLY come into possession of your firearm. He can at this point run the serial number. NO warrant is needed, he has legally come into possession of the firearm. For all intents and purposes it was a consensual search as you gave him the firearm! Call it legislatively mandated consent, but it is in no way an illegal search or seizure.
I know some will argue why disarm me? I have been through a background check? Well all that background check means is that on the date and time you were checked you were clear. It does not mean you have not gone to the dark side since. I know statistically less than 1% of CHL holders go dark. How does he know you are not that <1%? .
In reality very few officers disarm. I have been stopped numerous times since I got my CHL. I have only been disarmed once, it did not bother me or offend me. IF I was still on the streets I would probably not disarm all CHLs, Depending on the time and place of the stop there are a few I would. It is strictly a judgment call the officer has to make. He has to do whatever he feels is necessary, LEGALLY, to go home to his family at the end of his shift.
Until a court states the law is unconstitutional this is the reality.
Let's say you get pulled over. You produce your CHL and DL and the officer inquires are you carrying? You respond yes. At this point the officer has 2 choices, say ok, and let you keep possession of your weapon, or for his own safety, he elects to disarm you.
Note: The law does not say he has to fear for his safety, the law does not state he has to feel threatened. YOU HAVE GUN, he has the authority to disarm you PERIOD! This is not something he has to justify his actions for later. IF the officer feels it is reasonable for his safety to disarm you he can. There is not a level of suspicion required. There is not a court in the land going to admonish the officer. All he has to say is that he did so for his personal safety. That is what he is authorized to do.
Now you have given him your firearm, he will unload it. At this point he has LEGALLY come into possession of your firearm. He can at this point run the serial number. NO warrant is needed, he has legally come into possession of the firearm. For all intents and purposes it was a consensual search as you gave him the firearm! Call it legislatively mandated consent, but it is in no way an illegal search or seizure.
I know some will argue why disarm me? I have been through a background check? Well all that background check means is that on the date and time you were checked you were clear. It does not mean you have not gone to the dark side since. I know statistically less than 1% of CHL holders go dark. How does he know you are not that <1%? .
In reality very few officers disarm. I have been stopped numerous times since I got my CHL. I have only been disarmed once, it did not bother me or offend me. IF I was still on the streets I would probably not disarm all CHLs, Depending on the time and place of the stop there are a few I would. It is strictly a judgment call the officer has to make. He has to do whatever he feels is necessary, LEGALLY, to go home to his family at the end of his shift.
Until a court states the law is unconstitutional this is the reality.
- Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:11 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
Re: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
The law permits the officer to disarm the CHL holder. He does not have to have probable cause to disarm, a warrant is not required for him to run the serial number just as he does not require a warrant to run a drivers license check on you once you hand him your DL.
So until someone wants to challenge the law permitting the officer to disarm you, you have two choices, comply with te law or challenge it and be prepared to suffer consequnces.
So until someone wants to challenge the law permitting the officer to disarm you, you have two choices, comply with te law or challenge it and be prepared to suffer consequnces.
- Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:40 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
Re: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
The sole discretion to disarm is that of the officer's. no one, meaning the courts or his/her superiors is going to second guess an officer's decision to disarm someone. All an officer has to say is that he did it for his safety, end of discussion.
When I was a Sargeant, which was long before CHL,had a citizen called to complain about being disarmed I would have asked one question, Does the law permit the officer to disarm you? Yes, have a nice day.
It is not as black and white as you paint it. The law does not state the officer feel threatened, the law says he may do so for safety of himself, the license holder or another person.
I realize that many people will argue that it is a play on words,but not in the eyes of the law. To say you feel threatened suggest someone did something to make you feel that way. The wording for the safety of, means nothing more than at the officers discretion.
When I was a Sargeant, which was long before CHL,had a citizen called to complain about being disarmed I would have asked one question, Does the law permit the officer to disarm you? Yes, have a nice day.
It is not as black and white as you paint it. The law does not state the officer feel threatened, the law says he may do so for safety of himself, the license holder or another person.
I realize that many people will argue that it is a play on words,but not in the eyes of the law. To say you feel threatened suggest someone did something to make you feel that way. The wording for the safety of, means nothing more than at the officers discretion.
- Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:02 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
Re: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
Mr. Marquez,
With allude respect I disagree with your interpretation.
With allude respect I disagree with your interpretation.
- Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:38 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
- Replies: 78
- Views: 14619
Re: DPS Serial Number Check Strategy
Cover the serial number with tape! Seriously? That in itself raises reasonable suspicion, which leads to probable cause. Not a real good idea. Once the officer uses his lawful authority to disarm you, there is nothing that prevents him frm running your serial number, just as there is nothing that prevents him from running your license plate prior to your stoop, or your drivers license during the stop.
This is not as complicated as many of you are making it
This is not as complicated as many of you are making it