TexasCHLforum.com

cyphertext wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:20 am I think they would argue that the ban did work since the shooting was “outside” the fair grounds.

rtschl wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:16 pm Attorney General Ken Paxton Files Appeal to Prevent Unlawful State Fair of Texas Firearms Ban From Taking Effect:

https://x.com/TXAG/status/1838308472263447021

carlson1 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 3:27 pm I am not buying the whole “non-profit” status the Fair claims to begin with. They make a profit on just their parking.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:26 am For me, the reductio ad absurdum aspect of this is the degree to which the organization running the State Farm must adhere to ANY of the the rules of the City of Dallas. If they are truly an independent situation, then none of the Dallas specific laws and rules must be adhered to. But I'm wiling to bet that many of Dallas's regulated areas are adhered to and even inspected by Dallas employed people with consequences to the State Fair organization if compliance is not complete and correct. As soon as the organization is under the control of the Dallas government for anything, it is under that control for everything. I would start that argument with the Dallas Police. Dallas PD is there enforcing laws as set by the City of Dallas. I believe food vendors are the same and probably the rides are controlled as well. It might even go as far as livestock. Otherwise, the State Fair organization is half-pregnant.

chamberc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 12:53 pm Gun ban upheld.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local ... ab09b64378

RottenApple wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:54 am

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:27 amRed Shirts

I dunno... Red Shirts aren't good for much except for cannon fodder.

carlson1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 11:18 am The problem being will be folks will go unarmed. Just like they loaded the train cars to be executed. Sheep are not real smart animals.

chasfm11 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 23, 2024 8:26 am

anygunanywhere wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 2:28 pm

Caliber wrote: ↑Thu Aug 22, 2024 9:30 am Here's the deal: The State Fair probably can't exclude gun carriers pursuant to Texas gun laws. However, they can trespass you and they don't need a reason. I don't believe the property is "public property" since is leased by a non-governmental entity.

You are probably correct.

I’m not picking at nits in your statement but am thinking about the overall logic.

If the state fair cannot legally exclude gun carriers from entering then why is it possible to legally trespass them out? Does not make sense! Citizens legally exercising their RKBA where they are legally allowed to be and not doing anything to meet the standards of breaking any law should be allowed entry and th fair should not be able to do anything to prevent it.

How much of the legal and regulatory system in the State of Texas changes in regard to a property when someone leases it from a governmental entity? The reason that I ask is an incident with the City of Lewisville a few years ago when they fenced off the downtown area and turned it over to a "vendor" who installed wand security guards at the entrances. Or the City of Grapevine who posted 30.06 signs at the entrances to their fenced off downtown events. This is not the first time for this sort of thing and, in my mind at least, the results are mixed on the outcomes.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:17 am Armed Attorneys has a review and opinion of the matter.

srothstein wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 9:27 pm I hate to burst everyone's bubble when it comes to AG Paxton on this, but it is political showboating and will not go anywhere. And he knows this and did this for the votes only.

If you read his official opinion (Opinion KP0108 here) it explains that the city is not responsible for the posting of the signs by a non-profit leasing the land, and that the posted signs are not illegal. It does point out that the property is still excepted from the violation under 30.06/30.07, so the signs are unenforceable.

A possible legal question that MIGHT change my opinion of Paxton on this is if the State Fair organization pays the city for the use of the land (leases the land from the city) or if they are contracted by the city to run the fair (as a contract employee/agent of the city). An agent of the city, even a contracted one, is still governed by the city and it means the city is responsible for the signs. A lessor of the property means the city is not responsible.

Through this lease agreement, the City of Dallas authorizes the State Fair of Texas to take control
of the functions of operating the public city park, various city buildings, walkways and sidewalks
contained within the 277 acres over a 24-day period.

To the extent that the State Fair of Texas, as a nonprofit organization, may have considered Texas
Attorney General Opinion KP-0108 (dated August 9, 2016), in making its decision to exclude
license holders from the entirety of the 277-acre Fair Park and all of its buildings, walkways and
sidewalks, such reliance was misplaced in regard to the 277-acre Fair Park.

rtschl wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2024 7:56 am From AG Paxton:
BREAKING: I have sent a notice letter to the City of Dallas directing it to withdraw the statement made by the State Fair of Texas, the organization contracted to run Fair Park during the annual event, that prohibits citizens from lawfully carrying a firearm on the premise. Texas law clearly states that license to carry holders may not be prevented from carrying a firearm on property owned or leased by the government unless otherwise prevented by state statute. The State Fair of Texas’s recent policy that infringes on LTC holders’ Second Amendment rights is unlawful. Dallas has fifteen days to fix the issue, otherwise I will see them in court.

https://x.com/KenPaxtonTX/status/182370 ... 9jEg&s=19

On August 8, the State Fair of Texas announced that it is changing its weapons policy to prohibit attendees from exercising their Right-to-Carry at the event. A press release noted:

As a private not-for-profit organization, the State Fair of Texas prohibits fairgoers from carrying all firearms, knives that are prohibited according to state law, clubs, explosive devices, ammunition, chemical dispensing devices, replicas or hoaxes, or other weapons of any kind. This includes Holders of a License to Carry, Constitutional Carry, Concealed Carry, and the Open Carry of firearms anywhere on the fairgrounds including Cotton Bowl Stadium.

The item also warned: Guests will be channeled through weapons detection technology which screens for dangerous weapons in the presence of a licensed and trained security officer.

The State Fair of Texas' move does raise serious questions about the legality of firearms on government property. As the State Fair noted in the press release, it is a private not-for-profit entity. But the City of Dallas owns Fair Park, which it leases to the State Fair to operate the fair. The big question is if this lease allows the State Fair to enact a policy the City of Dallas is not allowed to implement. These questions are being considered, scrutinized, and discussed by attorneys.

Just Released:
TSRA Endorsed Chairman Dustin Burrows (R-Lubbock) has released a letter criticizing the State Fair for their actions. He has 70+ signatures on the letter. His letter, addressed to the State Fair of Texas Board of Directors, encouraged the board to rescind their new policy.

We at TSRA will continue to keep our members informed as we learn more about what we can do to fight this policy, and will keep you updated as things progress.

Aside from the legal issues, the ban is a bad policy and is a matter being taken seriously by your team at TSRA.

John C. Poole II
TSRA Executive Director and Acting Legislative Director

Rex B wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:23 pm This reporter has responded with a letter from the OAG regarding the Fort Worth Zoo where we had the same issue.
It states the OAG has determined the Zoo can post legal 30.06 signs because they operate the zoo and the city has no part in that.

The situation seems identical to the State Fair case. What am I missing?

Please help us keep the Fair safe and fun for all! We reserve the right to search all fairgoers and their bags upon entry into the fairgrounds. No weapons of any kind are permitted on the fairgrounds. This includes guns, knives, clubs, tasers, etc. Also, all sharp metal objects, such as pocketknives, scissors, and other sharp implements, are strictly prohibited. Please leave these items at home or in your vehicle. If you usually carry a pocketknife and forget it’s in your pocket when you reach the security checkpoint, you will be asked to return it to your vehicle to secure your knife or be given the option to dispose of it prior to entering the park. If you question whether something is safe to bring in, it probably isn’t – and should be left at home or inside your vehicle.

License to Carry a Handgun

The State Fair of Texas is—and always has been—a private entity. The Fair leases the Fair Park property from the City of Dallas but is not part of the City or controlled by a government body.

The State Fair of Texas has long been, and continues to be, a strong supporter of the rights of responsible gun owning Texans. For that reason, the Fair has long allowed Fair attendees with valid handgun licenses to carry their handguns in a concealed manner while attending the Fair (except for locations prohibited by law). The State Fair will not allow unlicensed gun owners to enter the fairgrounds with a firearm.

A person holding a valid Texas License to Carry a Handgun (LTC), or a valid handgun license from a reciprocating state, is permitted to enter the Fair with his or her concealed handgun, provided that he or she thereafter fully complies with all applicable laws. LTC holders are responsible for knowing and complying with all applicable Texas laws. For example, under Texas Penal Code Chapter 46 an LTC holder is prohibited from carrying a handgun (1) on any other premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place (this may include Cotton Bowl Stadium, as well as the State Fair’s livestock facilities where interscholastic events are presented), (2) on the premises of a business that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, or (3) while intoxicated.

The State Fair of Texas prohibits Fair attendees (including LTC holders) from openly carrying handguns while at the Fair. If an individual attempts to enter the Fair with an openly carried handgun, the guest will be asked to conceal the handgun (if the guest has a valid LTC), otherwise the guest will be asked to secure the handgun in his or her vehicle or at some offsite location.