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Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

LoneStarTx wrote:

The Wall wrote:They had this on Myth Busters. Basically they showed that if you shoot straight up into the air it won't kill you. If you shoot it at an angle other than straight up it could have enough velocity to injure or kill depending on the angle. Not something anyone should be doing regardless.

Sorry but that is just a tv show. The physics say otherwise. The bullet will free fall to terminal velocity with more than enough energy to penetrate the skull. Remember the advice that a penny dropped from a tall building can kill? Any bullet is much heavier and will fall from greater height.

You may be right, but do you have a formula to calculate the energy at various bullet weights? I recall the Myth Busters episode and if I recall correctly, the rounds barely cracked the dirt that appeared to be something in a dry river bed.

Chas.

Well, I found this but it's Greek to me!

Chas.

This is the formula for Terminal Velocity in a vacuum. Hence it only varies with the height and gravity. In a vacuum the bullet would return with exactly the same velocity as when fired (if fired perfectly vertically at < escape velocity). This ignores friction of the atmosphere, which practically limits falling objects to about 120fps if they don't have any downward velocity to begin with.

The bullet or the penny will be highly unlikely to penetrate the skull with their vertical velocity.

While I don't work as a Physicist...I DO have a degree in Physics and ballistics was within my course of study...

warnmar10 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Free-falling rounds simply do not have the energy to penetrate the skull or significantly deep into soft tissue. As The Wall noted, Myth Busters did a segment on this sometime back.

This is terribly sad and so preventable. I hope the person who did this is caught and prosecuted.

Chas.

Bullets fired into the air maintain their lethal capability when they eventually fall back down.

busted / plausible / confirmed

In the case of a bullet fired at a precisely vertical angle (something extremely difficult for a human being to duplicate), the bullet would tumble, lose its spin, and fall at a much slower speed due to terminal velocity and is therefore rendered less than lethal on impact. However, if a bullet is fired upward at a non-vertical angle (a far more probable possibility), it will maintain its spin and will reach a high enough speed to be lethal on impact. Because of this potentiality, firing a gun into the air is illegal in most states, and even in the states that it is legal, it is not recommended by the police. Also the MythBusters were able to identify two people who had been injured by falling bullets, one of them fatally injured. To date, this is the only myth to receive all three ratings at the same time.

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode50

If a bullet is fired upward at close to vertical (close to 90 degrees) it will always have much more vertical velocity than horizontal, but gravity will eventually burn off "ALL" its vertical velocity, then it will fall back at around max of 120 fps (terminal velocity in 1 atmosphere). It won't have much horizontal velocity at all (depending on angle toward) and that will be burned up by friction while the bullet is going up and down. In all likelihood it will lose it before it lands. The spin, if not expended, will hold the bullet in the same angle as it was fired, meaning as it falls it will hit rear first and horizontally it will hit from the side.

This is basic physics and vectors. Therefore I maintain my suspicion that the incident was the result of defilade fire, <45 degree angle fire, or shot fired and victim at significantly different heights.

Vol Texan wrote:I hope they find the idiot who did this:

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/ho ... =fb-pemium

Just a few moments into the New Year, Javier Sruarez Rivera stood in his driveway with his wife to watch fireworks burst in the night sky, listening to their pops mingled with the sounds of unseen neighbors shooting guns into the air.

As he looked up, a bullet came down.

Rivera collapsed, falling backward onto the concrete, blood pouring from a wound to his head. Inside his house, 18 family members, who had been sharing midnight hugs and handshakes, heard his wife's screams for someone to call 911.

This is really tragic, but I believe some further investigation is warranted. I believe in most cases terminal velocity for a falling object is about 120 fps or 154 mph. A roughly straight up until it falls back bullet would have lost it's spin and lateral velocity (if any). I guess if it hit you in the eye...or soft tissue of the neck... I highly suspect "defilade" fire. In other words more lateral from a higher vertical location...or maybe even someone with evil intent shooting while covered by celebratory fireworks.

There was an incident at a theme park near Charlotte, NC (Carowinds) in the '80's where a girl was killed while in the swimming pool. It was by someone shooting an AK-47 at around 45 degrees from vertical near the park. The State couldn't prove who actually fired the shot so they couldn't bring a manslaughter case, but it turns out that the AK-47 was illegally converted to full-auto so the Feds prosecuted the owner for manufacture/possession of an unregistered machine gun. That came with a 10 year sentence.