TexasCHLforum.com

Bunkins wrote:I look at it this way, and I'll use my line of work for an example.. A customer walks in, tells me to change a starter, nothing else.. I change the starter, doesnt matter if I found bad cables, a bad battery, I change the starter, nothing more nothing less. If the starter doesn't fix the problem, dont blame me, I did what you asked me to do. Now if they tell me the starter isn't working, check it out, then I'm obligated to find the cause as to why the starter isnt working.



BUT, on the flip side, if a customer walks in, and asks me to make sure their equipment is ready for the winter, or summer, I know what that involves, and thats the service I provide.. If I leave something out with the intension of getting a repeat customer because I left something out that I know will cause the equipment to fail, then thats dishonest.

If someone came in, told me to make a sign with no instructions, I dont have enough info to do the job. That sign could be 1X2, or it could be 50X60. The guy knows what size the sign should be, therefore he should make it the way he knows how. Unless told otherwise.


In this situation, I feel it's very dishonest. Funny? Yeah it's funny.. But the guy making the signs is knowingly making a sign thats not legal, and he's doing it for personal gain ( money for making a illegal sign, as well as making a sign that he knows will not stop a CHL holder from going into that business ), it is dishonest, it doesn't matter how you look at it.. I know where you guys that see nothing wrong with it are coming from, but from a business stand point it's not right.. The correct way to handle this, is for him to refuse to make the sign and give his reason's why.

ewhite wrote:

kitty wrote:We're not talking about walking past non-compliant signs. The OP is about a guy he knows who intentionally makes non-compliant 30.06 signs for people who come in asking for them. He knows how they are supposed to be done, but because he knows how they're supposed to be but the client doesn't he just does them wrong because they won't know the difference. If I went to a restaurant and ordered something but didn't know how it was supposed to be prepared, but the chef knew exactly how it was to be done, but decided to short me on the preparation to save money or just because he's lazy, because I wouldn't know the difference, then he's stealing from me. I mean I don't know what my doctor is supposed to do regarding medical procedures, but he does; should he give me less quality care since I don't know if what he's doing is really correct or not. I would hope not. It's interesting to me what is condoned here.

Correction: He did ask if we, as CHLs, walk past non-compliant signs, then he mentioned his friend who prints them for people, but makes them non-compliant on purpose so he doesn't get busted. To answer the question, yes I do walk past non-compliant signs. I have only seen two compliant signs, the others I've seen are not.

I think a better way to coorelate it would be for you to order an Denver omlette and tell the chef you only want ham and cheese. Well the chef knows it has green peppers and mushrooms and it tastes much better with them, but if you want it with only ham and cheese, then that is the way you get it.

I just talked to him and he said he is not changing the wording, he is not giving them anything they do not ask for. If they ask for 30.06 sign he says how big do you wnat it? they say 8X10 then he makes it. They got exactly what they asked for.

Oh, if you walk past non comliant signs, then you are doing the same thing...you know that that establishment does not want you in there with your gun. Now do not get me wrong, when I get mine, I will dismiss them also, I will also be thanking my friend for not making it harder to go places than it should be. They call them idiot signs, because only an idiot would want one.

People want the police around anytime they can, but you mention people that are trained and have to follow the same rules, that can potentially stop your store from being robbed and they do not want that because your not police???...Idiots

Morgan wrote:There's 2 ways it could go down that I see as slightly different. If a sign maker gets a call from a customer who says, "I want to order the kind of sign I can display outside my store so people will legally be obligated to leave their guns outside" then yeah, he's stealing.

if he makes non compliant signs and advertises that he has signs for sale that say "blah blah blah" and people buy them, that's another. I mean, there are people making ghostbuster vinal stickers and selling them.

ewhite wrote:

kitty wrote:You have a point, but in this case, the printer knows exactly how the signs are to be done to be compliant, and he intentionally does them wrong to skirt the law at his client's expense. It's not like he's ignorant about how it's supposed to be done. I find this man to be untrustworthy.

Wow this turned the totally wrong direction....So Kitty if you see a non-compiant sign, do you obey it? If you do then great, but if you do not then you are doing exactly what he is. You know in your heart what is supposed to be on the sign...

Like I said, the customer is getting what they are ordering. If they order the proper sign, then that is what they get. If they do not state what size they want or say they want an illegal size he does not change their mind for them. Being in the business that also deals with machine shops, you literally get what you ask for, he is no different, he gives them what they ask for...FYI he is not changing the verbage of the sign. FYI if the cutomer only asks for the sign in english then that is what they get...I find it amuzing.

RugerP345 wrote:I don't think what he is doing is morally incorrect. If the customer does not provide the proper specification for the sign, then it is up to the Mfg. of the signs to come up with the correct specification. From a business standpoint, a sign that is smaller, takes less material, and thus is cheaper in the end. It would be cost prohibitive for the business owner to make a bigger sign that would use more material IF no spec. was provided. Maybe that’s his justification for the "non-compliant" signs.

I'm sure he is just in the sign making business, and not the 30.06 sign making business.

When I send down a set of prints to the machine shop, I get exactly what I designed. If something is incorrect with the part, it was a mistake on my part, and not the machinists.

anygunanywhere wrote:Kitty, not wanting to drift this thread, but there have been several discussions recently that essentially insist that what I have on my pereson is not the concern of any business. They have no right under any sort of private property ideology to tell me what I can or cannot strap to my person and carry concealed.

Anygunanywhere

anygunanywhere wrote:

kitty wrote:

AggieC05 wrote:while i understand what he is doing.. something in me says this is morally wrong.....
not ignoring the illegal 30.06 signs but a guy knowingly selling them non compliant signs....

I know when I order things I expect them to be complaint with specs.. take any of the guns you own. When you order a gun do you go and research ever spec of the gun and send them a list of each exact spec of barrel spacing, which trigger, wait make sure you use that the right magazine...

Just seems like bad business and morally wrong to me. I hate 30.06 signs as much as you guys, but this is not the right way to go about not following them.....

I have to agree here. This guy is knowingly deceiving his clients. I think it's unethical what he's doing. I understand why he's doing it, but it's still wrong. He's getting paid to do a job right, not to give his clients the shaft. Maybe instead of intentionally printing them incorrectly he could just say he won't print them, or try to educate the people having them printed up.

The truly unethical part of this whole discussion is that anyone would infringe on anyone's RKBA by posting any sign forbidding free men from exercising their constitutional rights.

The people purchasing the signs can read the law. Buyer beware.

Why care that someone willing to deny you your rights is being ripped off?

Anygunanywhere

AggieC05 wrote:while i understand what he is doing.. something in me says this is morally wrong.....
not ignoring the illegal 30.06 signs but a guy knowingly selling them non compliant signs....

I know when I order things I expect them to be complaint with specs.. take any of the guns you own. When you order a gun do you go and research ever spec of the gun and send them a list of each exact spec of barrel spacing, which trigger, wait make sure you use that the right magazine...

Just seems like bad business and morally wrong to me. I hate 30.06 signs as much as you guys, but this is not the right way to go about not following them.....