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MadMonkey wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:14 am

AndyC1911 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm We've all seen inexperienced shooters try to shoot with a laser and it didn't help them

Red dots are no different and the sole advantage they might have (over traditional iron sights) is a single plane of focus.

Everything still comes down to trigger-control once the sight - in whatever form it takes - is aligned, so my opinion is allow them (and lasers and the kitchen sink if they want).

The only time I’ve ever a shot a handgun with a laser sight, I was already a fairly experienced shooter, and I gave it up. My wife’s first pistol was a S&W 642 with Crimson Trace grips that I gave her for Valentine’s Day back in 2008. For the life of me, I could NOT stop chasing that red dot all over the target. When I turned the daggum thing off and went back to using the rudimentary open sights, the problem went away completely. I’ve avoided lasers on handguns ever since.

I have yet to shoot a pistol with an RDS, but my sense is that it would be a lot more like using irons than it would be like using a laser. I could be wrong, but that’s my impression. For the record, I love a RDS on a carbine; and out to at least 50 yards, I shoot a carbine with an RDS about as well as I do with a magnified optic, and a little better with an RDS than I do with irons. So at typical handgun distances—say 25 yards and under—I don’t think an RDS-mounted pistol would be that big of a problem. Again, I could be wrong, but that’s my impression.

Both lasers and RDSs clearly show every little twitch and movement of your pistol, but for me it's much more natural to use a red dot than a laser.

Presentation is EVERYTHING though. Get that right and you won't have to search for the dot.

I have a couple of pistols with red dots and will do my best to keep purchasing and using them. I shoot far better with them and always had issues with irons.

For me, I don’t think that’s the issue……because my sight picture over iron sights doesn’t move much at all, resulting in acceptable groups. And sight presentation is just a matter of repetitive training. I figure that a RDS, being in roughly the same focal plane as my iron sights, wouldn’t move around relative to my eyeball anymore than the irons do. In other words, the group at the target end should be roughly similar as one produced with iron sights. But with a laser dot, because it is projected onto the target surface, every tiny movement at the gun end results in a lot of movement of the dot at the target end, and my eyes begin to "chase the dot around", followed by corresponding movement of my sight picture to align it with the ever-moving dot. I can’t seem to break myself of it. It’s like trying to frame a house, where you’re out of plumb by only 1/4” at one corner, and 2” at the opposite corner. The effect of movement is amplified. And since I’m trying to place the laser dot on the desired POA but it keeps moving around, my adjustments to bring it back get bigger and bigger. With an RDS, that point of red light isn’t being projected onto the target, so it’s movements relative to my eye would appear less amplified, and therefore easier to control……if that makes sense. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

AndyC1911 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm We've all seen inexperienced shooters try to shoot with a laser and it didn't help them

Red dots are no different and the sole advantage they might have (over traditional iron sights) is a single plane of focus.

Everything still comes down to trigger-control once the sight - in whatever form it takes - is aligned, so my opinion is allow them (and lasers and the kitchen sink if they want).

The only time I’ve ever a shot a handgun with a laser sight, I was already a fairly experienced shooter, and I gave it up. My wife’s first pistol was a S&W 642 with Crimson Trace grips that I gave her for Valentine’s Day back in 2008. For the life of me, I could NOT stop chasing that red dot all over the target. When I turned the daggum thing off and went back to using the rudimentary open sights, the problem went away completely. I’ve avoided lasers on handguns ever since.

I have yet to shoot a pistol with an RDS, but my sense is that it would be a lot more like using irons than it would be like using a laser. I could be wrong, but that’s my impression. For the record, I love a RDS on a carbine; and out to at least 50 yards, I shoot a carbine with an RDS about as well as I do with a magnified optic, and a little better with an RDS than I do with irons. So at typical handgun distances—say 25 yards and under—I don’t think an RDS-mounted pistol would be that big of a problem. Again, I could be wrong, but that’s my impression.