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I own 2 .380s, a Kel-Tec P3AT and a Colt Government, and I don't carry either of them. My "minimum" carry gun is a scandium framed .357 snubbie. It may only carry 5 rounds, but those are 5 rounds of absolute beat-down. If my shot placement is not perfect with a .380, then I risk having just made the guy really, REALLY mad at me. If my shot placement is not perfect with my .357, the muzzle blast alone will likely make him soil himself (without ear protection, it might make me soil myself), and a solid hit with a .357 anywhere in the torso has a high probability of taking the other guy out of the fight....which is my primary goal.

Most of you know how I love my 1911 pistols. Some will disagree, but in both my mind and my heart, the 1911 is the perfect pistol. It is flat and conceals easily in a 3" gun, and it still conceals pretty well in a full-sized 5" gun. It somewhat lacks magazine capacity compared to the tupperware guns, but tactical reloads are fairly easy and even more recent designs like Sig P220s are still single stack .45s with an 8 round capacity. And speaking of .45 ACP, it is just darn hard to argue with its effectiveness. I'm not knocking the effectiveness of 9mm, but I think that its prevalence as a military and police caliber loaded in double stack pistols was more of a reaction on the part of law enforcement agencies and military services to increase capacity as an offset to poor gun handling skills than it was because a 15+1 round 9mm pistol is inherently a better choice at pistol shooting distances than a 8+1 round .45 ACP pistol.

But my preference for the 1911 design is as much a matter of the heart as anything else, and I fully acknowledge that a .45 caliber Glock or M&P is a great defensive pistol. For my own use, I find the full-sized Glock G21 to be less easily concealable than a full-sized 1911 in the same caliber, and we're talking about concealed carry pistols for personal defense use in this thread. And that brings me back to the .380 as a CCW caliber....

A Bersa Thunder weighs 20 oz and has a 7+1 capacity in .380, and is 1.3" in width, with an MSRP of about $330.00. I just saw one on gunbroker.com selling with a "buy now" price of $350.00

A Kahr CW9 weighs 15 oz and has a 7+1 capacity in 9mm, and is .9" wide, with an MSRP of $549. I saw one at Euless Guns and Ammo the other day for $499.00.

So for roughly $150.00 more, I can have a gun with the same capacity as a Bersa Thunder, which weighs 5 oz less, is nearly a half inch narrower, and which is chambered in 9mm instead of .380. I don't mean to belittle anybody's personal finances, but in the greater scheme of things, $150 is not a big difference for a pistol capable of firing +P 9mm. That seems like a no-brainer to me. Kahr has other, even smaller and lighter 9mm pistols. Kimber has the new Solo. There are other manufacturers selling small and light 9mm pistols for pretty reasonable prices. My M&P340 .357 weighs 13 oz and packs MAJOR power. With those kind of choices, why settle for a .380?

There are just too many other good choices, chambered in calibers with far more authority than that particular cartridge. That's just my 2¢.

Excaliber wrote:When it comes to bullets, little and light doesn't do the same job as big and heavy.

I would only amend that to say "when it comes to handgun bullets..." because I sure as heck wouldn't want to get shot by someone wielding an AR15.

tacticool wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Here is a test scenario:
You were at home sitting in front of the TV with a 45 ACP, a 9mm and a .380 ACP on the coffee table. You are thoroughly familiar with each of the three pistols, they are equally reliable in terms of function, and you shoot well with each one.

• Question 1: If a kick burglar comes through your front door, which pistol would you choose to fight with and why?

None of the above. I'm grabbing the AR in that situation. If the AR is not in reach, I'll grab whatever pistol is closest and use it to fight my way to the AR.

Well yes, me too. But a lot of people do have pistols, and they don't have AR15s, and this thread is about the advisability of .380 ACP - a pistol caliber - as a carry weapon caliber. I know that it's perfectly legal to carry my loaded AR15 around, but in downtown Grapevine, that's likely to get me arrested even so.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Here is a test scenario:
You were at home sitting in front of the TV with a 45 ACP, a 9mm and a .380 ACP on the coffee table. You are thoroughly familiar with each of the three pistols, they are equally reliable in terms of function, and you shoot well with each one.

• Question 1: If a kick burglar comes through your front door, which pistol would you choose to fight with and why?
  Question 2: Absent compelling circumstances, why would your daily carry gun be different?

This. That is why even my "BUG" is a .357. If I had no other gun of greater power, I would rather carry a .380 than not carry a gun at all. But that is not my dilemma, so I don't carry a .380.

bigmoney wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

bigmoney wrote:The arrogance of others is their own mistake. How exactly they know for sure it's such a horrible choice, is beyond me. Concidering the chances that any of them have been shot by a .380 to effectivley know that it's not a suitable weapon choice, being slim to none. It may not be the ideal weapon to take on a gang of thugs in an all out street war, but it's more than enough to handle one or maybe two losers trying to do you harm. This must be a group of fashionist who spend their time measuring one's worth by the size of his/her weapon. I'll see them on the other side, in the mean time, i'll carry what works for the dress code and situation and make do with what i have. A small .380 would work a lot better in my pocket in summer shorts and shirtless than a compact with a frame showing above my waistline.

Wow. I see someone hit a nerve.

I think that there is no inconsistency in recommending something with more stank on it, and still not wanting to step in front of one either. I don't want to step in front of a .177 caliber pellet pistol either, but that doesn't mean that I would recommend it as a carry weapon. Guess what.... you're right... I've never had any experience being shot with a .380. But, unlike most people, I have had a TON of experience treating gunshot patients, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that .380 is not as good a carry caliber as 9mm or .45 ACP. It just isn't. It's not a terrible choice, but there are better choices... ...in my opinion. Not if what you are talking about is to be able to effectively stop an assailant. That doesn't mean that it won't, but it won't do it as effectively. Don't take it personally.

It isn't about being a fashionista, as you put it, and your charge of arrogance is misplaced. The simple truth is that people make compromises every day in order to make CCW work for them. You have no trouble carrying a .380 in your shorts pockets. Good for you. I have no trouble concealing a larger, more powerful gun when I wear shorts, and I am more comfortable with that choice, but I don't criticize your choice, and you'll notice that I refrained from disparaging the character of people who disagree with my choices. No. You're the one who went there with your "fashionistas" and your "measuring one's worth by the size of his/her weapon," like this was about some kind of sexual fixation.

Frankly, I think you owe people an apology.

My words aren't meant to offend anybody here, but to express how unreasonable it is to deny people their right to talk about the carry of a smaller weapon. I'm not even in possession of a .380 yet, but would love to have one for the easier concealabilty because i'm a smaller guy. sorry if you see something wrong with my words, but with no offense intended, i don't see the issue.

then I misunderstood you, and I owe you an apology. I thought you were talking about folks on this board, so I apologize. FWIW, I think that a rule forbidding discussion of any caliber is stupid.

bigmoney wrote:The arrogance of others is their own mistake. How exactly they know for sure it's such a horrible choice, is beyond me. Concidering the chances that any of them have been shot by a .380 to effectivley know that it's not a suitable weapon choice, being slim to none. It may not be the ideal weapon to take on a gang of thugs in an all out street war, but it's more than enough to handle one or maybe two losers trying to do you harm. This must be a group of fashionist who spend their time measuring one's worth by the size of his/her weapon. I'll see them on the other side, in the mean time, i'll carry what works for the dress code and situation and make do with what i have. A small .380 would work a lot better in my pocket in summer shorts and shirtless than a compact with a frame showing above my waistline.

Wow. I see someone hit a nerve.

I think that there is no inconsistency in recommending something with more stank on it, and still not wanting to step in front of one either. I don't want to step in front of a .177 caliber pellet pistol either, but that doesn't mean that I would recommend it as a carry weapon. Guess what.... you're right... I've never had any experience being shot with a .380. But, unlike most people, I have had a TON of experience treating gunshot patients, I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that .380 is not as good a carry caliber as 9mm or .45 ACP. It just isn't. It's not a terrible choice, but there are better choices... ...in my opinion. Not if what you are talking about is to be able to effectively stop an assailant. That doesn't mean that it won't, but it won't do it as effectively. Don't take it personally.

It isn't about being a fashionista, as you put it, and your charge of arrogance is misplaced. The simple truth is that people make compromises every day in order to make CCW work for them. You have no trouble carrying a .380 in your shorts pockets. Good for you. I have no trouble concealing a larger, more powerful gun when I wear shorts, and I am more comfortable with that choice, but I don't criticize your choice, and you'll notice that I refrained from disparaging the character of people who disagree with my choices. No. You're the one who went there with your "fashionistas" and your "measuring one's worth by the size of his/her weapon," like this was about some kind of sexual fixation.

Frankly, I think you owe people an apology.

philip964 wrote:Which rule is it that in a gun fight you must have a gun. For many a 380 is all they can comfortably carry. What bothers me the most about my 380 is not the size of the bullet (which is 9mm in dia. by the way) but it is the fact that it only has six shots and I don't shoot such a small gun that accurately.

Your answer, btw, is exactly why I chose #3. But while a 9mm and a .380 may share the same diameter, they do not share the same power. The .380 is certainly better than no gun at all, and it is certainly better than a .25 or a .32. And a P3AT (which is what one of my .380s is) is very flat and easy to conceal; and they are very inexpensive as far as guns go.

Still, .380 is not the caliber I recommend to those who have the means to carry more than that, and who are new to the CCW world. The way I see it, if you're going to be restricted in capacity, which a lot of the little .380s are, then you might as well go for something that conceals almost as easily, has similar capacity, and packs a lot more punch - like an alloy framed 5 shot revolver rated for .38 Special +P. Make mine a scandium framed .357. Still only 5 rounds, but 5 rounds that almost certainly will take the fight out of a man if you hit him. A .380 may not. It might, but the margin seems a lot narrower to me. I'd rather have more certainty by being able to hit a lot harder if I do hit.

USA1 wrote:First of all, I would never discourage anyone from carrying a. 380. I did for a long time.

However, I struggled with the thought that it just didn't have the stopping power that I felt a self defense gun should have.

For personal reasons I have since chosen my minimum caliber to be .38special +P with .45 being my first choice.

This...

I voted for the third item, but even though I own two .380s and on extremely rare occasion carry one of them, it is not my caliber recommendation to anybody who asks. I recommend .38 Special +P as a minimum standard for revolvers and 9mm as a minimum standard for semi-autos.