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anygunanywhere wrote:I got motivated yesterday and refabbed my youngest son's old Daisy Red Ryder. Cleaned it out and relubed everything up. Found an old zinc plated BB stuck in the bore. I bought that BB gun back in 1982.

Shoots good.

Anygunanywhere

A few years ago, I gave my son an M1A for Christmas. But I also bought a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun. On Christmas morning I asked him if he had room in his safe for another one, and I handed him the wrapped up BB gun. He opened it, chuckled a bit, and set it aside to open another gift. So then I asked him to check to see what that box behind my bedroom door had in it. The look on his face as he unwrapped the M1A was priceless. But he has shot that BB gun more lately than the M1A, the ammo situation being what it is.

Shinesintx wrote:That is awesome...where can I get bedspread like that?

LOL.

Find anymore dead bunnies this morning?

OK, the more I look around, the more I can see that it would be worth it to step up for an RWS 48. I'm looking at the one with the upgraded Hawk scope, and the only thing I haven't decided yet is .177 or .22, but I'm leaning toward the .22.

http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-airguns- ... s-kit.html


So, what is the difference between an RWS 48, and a Umarex 48? They look like the same rifle to me.

Steve133 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Steve133 wrote:I had considered the effect of going supersonic. I note that the Gamo videos don't claim that the suppressed gun is silent. They claim that game can't detect where it's coming from........which is pretty much exactly what happens with a suppressed AR15 or AR10. It's quieter for the shooter, and the diffused report makes directional location difficult, but there is still the crack of a passing bullet.......if you miss. I can see where a velocity of 800-900 fps would be just fast enough to make it quiet for a shooter while still not dealing with aerodynamic upset. Actually, the perfect goal for me would be the duplication of .22 LR in a 16" barrel, which would be somewhere between 1100 and 1200 fps for a standard load. That would actually duplicate the ballistic performance of my M&P15-22.

But I would think that a suppressed air rifle of that ballistic capability with a .22 caliber pellet matching or coming close to a standard .22 LR load would still be quiet enough to shoot in my back yard. Once you take the muzzle report out of the equation, the crack of the bullet has to be nearby to be nearby for a listener to hear it well, if at all.

Yeah, I agree that the noise issue is not significant. It's an odd double-edged misconception - you have to explain to people that you'll still hear a shot of standard ammunition fired through the best suppressor in the world, but then explain that, no, the sonic boom of the bullet isn't what makes the report so loud. Meh, whatever.

The main thing I was getting at is that I would THINK that aerodynamic upset would be more of an issue with a wasp-waisted pellet than a more geometrically-straightforward bullet, but that's pure speculation on my part. It's further complicated by the fact that there are variations on the standard pellet geometry, some of which might be more inherently stable at trans-sonic or supersonic velocities. Interesting stuff. I'd be a little worried about an attempt to match up the ballistics to an actual firearm being an apples-to-oranges affair since the flight characteristics of the projectiles are different. But maybe they're not different enough. No doubt someone out there actually knows the answer, but it's sure not me.

I'd be interested in following what you come up with. I'm sure you'll come up with a better and more useful analysis than most of the stuff I was able to find online.

Until that video with the hogs, I had never seen an air rifle pellet/bullet that wasn't wasp waisted.

brainman wrote: (2)
Firing or discharging of an air gun on property owned by the party firing the air gun and his immediate family, provided that the discharge is no closer than 150 feet from any structure, except that of the owner, used for human habitation. Nothing contained in this exception shall permit the discharging of an air gun whereby the projectile falls on the land of another.

My home forms a "U" shape, with the open end facing the back yard. My back patio is at the bottom of that "U", and the table on the patio is about 15 yards or so from a 4' high railroad timber retaining wall backed by earth and trees. IF I were a scofflaw.........I would pin a target to those timbers and sit at my patio table and shoot at it, and the sound would be completely absorbed by my house, the retaining wall, and the jungle of trees on my neighbors' properties..........IF I were a scofflaw......

Shinesintx wrote:Living in the city kinda blows. Air rifles are outlawed where I live also...so I have no clue who the scofflaw is that keeps eradicating wrascally wabbits.

I think I might know who it is.....

Steve133 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:The big question for me is velocity. These .17 caliber pellets don't weigh bupkis, so it takes velocity to make them into a serious killing gun. That's why I'm not so much interested in a 1,000 fps rifle, when for $100 to $150 more I can get a 1,400 fps rifle. But am I obsessing too much about it if I'm thinking of paying $180 more for a 1,400 fps rifle over a 1,250 fps rifle? Is that extra 150 fps worth an extra $1.20 for each fps more? My natural inclination is to say "yes it is," but because I am a complete novice when it comes to these things, particularly for killing small game, do you guys think it is worth it? Will it make the rifle that much more lethal, or is it all just eyewash?

Disclaimer: I don't actually own a "serious" air gun - however, I did a lot of research on them, since I was recently seriously considering buying one for many of the same reasons that you cite (ultimately decided to focus on airsoft as being more useful for the IDPA/3-Gun competitions I'm trying to get into more). Oddly enough, that also gave me a chance to use that aerospace engineering degree that I haven't used that much in the past 5 years....

For "stopping power," you need kinetic energy, which as a function of mass and velocity, means that you want more speed if you're limited to a certain projectile mass. But there are some weird aerodynamic quirks to consider as well. As someone else already pointed out, once you get above 1,200 fps, you're going to be supersonic under most atmospheric conditions, and that means more noise - sonic boom of the projectile and all that. This isn't a LOT more noise, but enough to notice if "quietness" is something you're really looking for.

The other thing that might bite you is stability. The trans-sonic velocity regime (above ~900 fps or so under most conditions) introduces all sorts of disruptions in airflow, which hurts stability, and obviously impairs accuracy. Wikipedia actually states that 800 - 900 fps is often considered a good compromise between accuracy and power, but, well... That's Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt.

What I eventually settled on was accepting a somewhat conservative upper limit on velocity, then making up for it with mass - I was looking very seriously at .22 cal guns over .17. I think .17 is more of a "default" caliber used for competition and whatnot, but .22 is used a lot by hunters. FYI, I'm sure there's nothing wrong with spring guns, but I was looking for gas-powered rifles - fewer issues with mechanical fatigue and fewer moving parts in general. The pre-charged guns have great performance, but a higher front-end cost than I wanted. I'd just about decided on a CO2 rifle made by Hammerli when I scrapped the whole idea.

Just throwing some information out there, do what you want with it. I hate to waste good research.

I had considered the effect of going supersonic. I note that the Gamo videos don't claim that the suppressed gun is silent. They claim that game can't detect where it's coming from........which is pretty much exactly what happens with a suppressed AR15 or AR10. It's quieter for the shooter, and the diffused report makes directional location difficult, but there is still the crack of a passing bullet.......if you miss. I can see where a velocity of 800-900 fps would be just fast enough to make it quiet for a shooter while still not dealing with aerodynamic upset. Actually, the perfect goal for me would be the duplication of .22 LR in a 16" barrel, which would be somewhere between 1100 and 1200 fps for a standard load. That would actually duplicate the ballistic performance of my M&P15-22.

But I would think that a suppressed air rifle of that ballistic capability with a .22 caliber pellet matching or coming close to a standard .22 LR load would still be quiet enough to shoot in my back yard. Once you take the muzzle report out of the equation, the crack of the bullet has to be nearby to be nearby for a listener to hear it well, if at all.

Topbuilder wrote:AM,
I spent alot of time researching air rifles. I have a Beeman R7. Love it. Very accurate. Easy to cock. Limited range though.
If I were going to get a full power rifle it would be a Beeman HW97 or an Air arms TX200. Under lever design is nice. Keeps the barrel fixed.
Crossman,Gamo, no. I feel like you are looking for "Firearm" quality... no need to look here.
Watch the fps... at 1300-1400 they sound the same as a .22.

These people always treat me right - http://www.straightshooters.com/air-arms-guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One Nice thing about air rifles, you can shoot indoors. Make a trap using electricians duct seal to stop and catch the lead. You only need about a 1 1/4" thick layer. Even when you stack pellets, no richochets. And no noise...
I did a test once, 100 shots through the same hole. The lead never penetrated the putty. Just kept bonding to each other.
If you take the plunge, pm me and I will send some pics of my trap design.

Those Air Arms guns look really nice. The wood stocks are beautiful. Unfortunately, I'd have to sell one of my centerfire rifles to pay for one, so that's not going to happen. I'll probably buy something much less expensive as my "entry-level gun" into the air rifle market. Maybe later I might step up and invest in a really nice one, just like I did with my very first bolt-action centerfire rifle—an inexpensive Ruger I purchased in the early 1990s, which was later replaced with a very nice Remington 700. I was really impressed with the power of the .45 caliber air rifle in BigGuy's video, although it looks like that thing is longer than my 91/30 Mosin with the bayonet mounted, but I'm not so much interested in an air rifle as a primary hunting rifle for larger game......although that could change.

Is there any inherent advantage of a cocking lever with a fixed barrel over a hinged barrel like the Gamo has?

TxLobo wrote:Just throwing this out there..

it may not be a firearm by definition, it may not be illegal to shoot a pellet/BB gun in your town/housing district...

but speaking from experience, the use of a pellet/BB gun to take any game in the State of Texas is illegal.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... unt/means/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can take Non Game critters.. but must have a valid hunting license..

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/regulations ... t/nongame/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Duly noted, and thanks for posting that.

Maybe other than killing a nuisance pest animal in my back yard..........of which there aren't that many if you don't count the occasional hornet, and even they earn their keep by killing webworms...........I am not really that interested in using the air rifle as a hunting implement UNLESS it is really appropriate for the particular hunt, or unless I simply can't get any more ammo, and the world as we know it has radically altered.......in which case TPWD might be irrelevant. I am more interested in the rifle as an addition to my preps. Every squirrel or rabbit or pigeon taken for the larder with a pellet is a round of .22 LR saved for more important use. And also, in a time when .22 and centerfire rifle ammo is hard to come by, it ought to be easy to stock up on pellets, and to get some "range time" in my back yard. The back of my property is backed by a railroad tie retaining wall, and the distance from my patio table to the retaining wall is only about 15 yards.......not very far, but far enough to have some fun punching paper.

The main thing is that the cost of entry, even for a legitimate hunting/varmint air rifle, is so darn reasonable that it seems like an increasingly good idea. That's why I'm so interested in what all of your experiences have been like, and my two primary questions are: A) if you've been satisfied with your purchase, and B) given the models currently available, would you still buy the same gun you bought, or would you buy an upgraded model?

The big question for me is velocity. These .17 caliber pellets don't weigh bupkis, so it takes velocity to make them into a serious killing gun. That's why I'm not so much interested in a 1,000 fps rifle, when for $100 to $150 more I can get a 1,400 fps rifle. But am I obsessing too much about it if I'm thinking of paying $180 more for a 1,400 fps rifle over a 1,250 fps rifle? Is that extra 150 fps worth an extra $1.20 for each fps more? My natural inclination is to say "yes it is," but because I am a complete novice when it comes to these things, particularly for killing small game, do you guys think it is worth it? Will it make the rifle that much more lethal, or is it all just eyewash?

Estand wrote:I just so happened to see that one of my favorite sites has refurbished ones for sale today. (limited time frame) http://www.sport.woot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They are a texas company btw.
I don't know how those prices stack up. But if you are interested in one, thought you should know.

I've bought a couple of things from Woot! before. Good company. I've looked at those rifle prices, and they are pretty good, but it is also impossible to tell what they cost brand new because they are a discontinued item from Gamo, and I can imagine why. The two that I am looking at, the Whisper Fusion Series, are $309.95 and $329.95 respectively, if bought directly from Gamo. That's not that much money either.

If I were just looking for something to shoot tin cans with, I would jump right on the Woot! offering. But instead of velocities of 1250 (PBA Platinum bullets) that you get with the Gamo The Bone Collector .177 Caliber Air Rifle for $149.00 from Woot!, the Whisper Fusion Pro gives you 1400 fps for another $180.00. Here's their promotional video, and it does seem awful quiet:

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That Bone Collector series rifle is no longer available on Amazon either....speaking of Amazon......but the Whisper Fusion (not the Pro) is available from Amazon for $255.48 instead of the $309.95 MSRP from Gamo direct.

By the way, I notice since the 4 days ago or so that I started looking at them, Gamo has removed the lower velocities attainable from lead bullets from their website, showing only the velocities with the lighter (and I'm sure more expensive) platinum bullets.

So I was looking at Gamo air rifles online the other day, and it seems that some of them are getting pretty impressive. They are NOT your grandpa's Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle. I note that several of them weigh as much as any sporter bolt action rifle, weighing at around 8 lb. Some models have stocks with adjustable comb height, a 3-9x40mm scope, and built in sound suppression. Velocities of 1300-1400 fps is attainable with the right ammo in some of the .17 caliber rifles.

Anyway, a couple of things occurred to me: A) these aren't just toys anymore, they are legitimate small game and varmint rifles and they might even have a limited home defense application; and B) no 4473, FFL transfer, NICS background check, and ammo has GOT to be more plentiful and cheaper than firearm ammo these days. I am seriously thinking about buying one.

So, do you have an air rifle yourself, how do you like yours if you have one, and if you could do it over, which one would you buy today? How do they actually shoot? What is the effective range? Etc., etc.

Clue me in here.