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cheezit wrote:Tam I saw that some were yesterday. Tanker pistol thought it was rather cool.

Dave2 wrote:

markthenewf wrote:That being said, TAM is correct as well: AR10's are pretty tough as well. If I were doing it all over, I'd really just look into an Armalite AR10. It's an AR platform, so you can slap a lot of stuff on it (if you want) and the newer ones are also set up to take PMAGs.

Some of them are... It's the AR-10A. The regular AR-10 still uses their proprietary mags.

(Really, why anyone would make a modern rifle that doesn't take PMAGs is beyond me, but I'm not a gun designer...)

markthenewf wrote:

ripnbst wrote:I'd say the advantage goes to current production guns. The older ones can be ruined by running ammo currently produced. Back in the day ammo wasn't loaded as hot as it is today. Running current production loads through an old gun will bend the operating rod.

That is most certainly not true. The new production M1A's use imported MIM parts which have been docmented by me and others to fail from time to time. Just google "M1A hammer broken" and see. If it wasn't an issue, then companies selling fully forged/machined parts would have no reason to exist. Yes, I'm sure someone will chime in saying that MIM is the answer and that I got a bad batch, blah, blah, blah. I'm over it and avoid MIM like the plague. But I digress: when I buy an M1A, I want American parts assembled in the US. I don't care if it's got a lifetime no-hassle warranty, if the failing part is to be replaced with the same spec part, then forget it. I'm sure there are other issues and this is why I eventually told SA to take a hike and give me my money back.

I eventually got a DSA FAL and that thing has yet to let me down even after some exploding steel cased TULA ammo.

That being said, TAM is correct as well: AR10's are pretty tough as well. If I were doing it all over, I'd really just look into an Armalite AR10. It's an AR platform, so you can slap a lot of stuff on it (if you want) and the newer ones are also set up to take PMAGs.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Abraham wrote:The Annoyed Man,

I know absolutely nothing about this rifle or what MIM technology means.

That said, the rifle looks very much like an M14 to me, that is to say, very appealing.

The various M-14's I carried were robust, but not ah, bullet proof. I've had more than one come apart or malfunction due to parts failure. Of course, these were G.I. issue and no doubt had enormous use before I had my hands on them.

If your model is a civilian variant I too am interested in acquiring one, but if your recent negative experience is common, that creates some pause in my consideration...

Have you at this point determined your problem with the rifle typical for this model or an aberration?

Thanks!

Abraham, yes, the M1A is a civilian, semi-automatic only, variant of the M14. "MIM" means "Metal Injection Molding" (note that there is a trigger in the picture). And, as this link says:

"I mean, if they use MIM parts in jet engines at 30,000 feet going Mach 2, what makes people think MIM parts are inferior for a firearm?"

I don't think that MIM as a concept is necessarily inferior technology. What I do think is that when manufacturers look to MIM as a cost cutting measure, the temptation to cut too much cost can lead to sloppy quality control.

I don't think that the M1A is an inherently fragile and undependable rifle. I suspect that its degree of reliability is probably similar to the M14 variant you handled in the military. In other words, it has whatever reliability is inherent in a battle rifle of post WW2 design, which was in many ways a refinement of a WW2 contemporaneous design. The M1 Garand (the M14's predecessor) did not have a particular reputation for unreliability, and it was firing a larger, more powerful cartridge. In the other thread I posted at Sniper's Hide forum, there were a few responses from people who had opinions about MIM versus USGI parts, but only a couple who had actually experienced or witnessed a similar failure. And, I received a PM here from BobCat, who told me among other things:

FYI I saw a very similar failure at the range a few weeks ago - in a USGI hammer from a USGI trigger group.

So I would be hard pressed to attribute the failure to MIM as a technique, and perhaps more to this being simply a flawed part in my rifle to begin with.

My principle daily carry weapon is a Kimber, which uses a number of MIM parts. I've never experienced a part failure in that pistol, and I've shot pretty close to 1500-1800 rounds through it. I stake my life on it when I carry it.

That said, of those M1As out there which have experienced parts failures, hammer failure appears to be a common type of breakage. But I don't think that they fail so often as to give the M1A design a reputation as a fragile rifle.

For most buyers, familiarity with the platform will likely be this rifle’s greatest selling point. Our choice of using a low-power extended-eye-relief scope, rather than taking advantage of the lengthy top rail and mounting a true precision riflescope, likely penalized the Ruger. But, in our opinion, the rough and unnecessarily heavy trigger was likely a greater detriment to accuracy. So if we were to buy this rifle, we would plan on an adding an aftermarket trigger.

What the data do not show was that the Socom 16 was a ball to shoot. And if you cannot tell from the photos, this weapon was built like the proverbial brick you-know-what. If we were looking for a truck gun or other handy application, we think the Socom 16 is the deluxe model for chores that require stopping power. Top to bottom, the rifle is truly compact (more so with the smaller magazines) and throwing the Socom 16 to the cheek and shoulder was as fast as it was pleasing.

VMI77 wrote:

RJGold wrote:I want to add something in 7.62 / .308 to my collection. I am trying to decide between something on an AR frame vs. an M1A style.

I know there are as many opinions as there are options but I wanted to get some feedback frome some of you who already own one or both in terms of pros / cons or lessons learned:

Thanks in advance for your input...

Let 'er rip!!!

I love my M1A, but perhaps I'm a little nostalgic as I had an M14 in my room in college, and shot the M14 while I was in the military. It's somewhat heavy compared to an AR, and more unwieldly (unless you get a SOCOM version), but it's a blast to shoot.