TexasCHLforum.com

baseballguy2001 wrote:OK, I'll play devil's advocate -- those SOBER and VIRTUOUS members who pine for a bill that would have expanded CHL holders more places to carry I ask, where are those places? Any business owner can put up a legal sign banning CHL holders before the new law as after. The out of sight, out of mind argument is good, but still doesn't answer the question. Just anecdotally, in my neck of the Texas woods I haven't seen an uptick in signage. My Dr.s office had legal signs up before the new law, and new ones after. The movie theaters we frequent have no signs. The grocery stores the last I checked don't. Admittedly, I'm not the shopper in the family. By the same token I haven't seen one open carrier yet either. DFW is a large area, surely I would have seen one by now right?

"Those places" would include any place a LEO can carry that we still cannot.

Note.... I never said I would have preferred such a bill had passed instead of OC. What I said was that I would have been ok if the other bill had passed instead of OC, but I am glad that OC passed. EITHER would have been an enhancement under the law for our carry rights. However, I DO believe that OC cost us more political capital than the other would have cost us, and because of the capital spent on it, it may take a few more sessions before we can recoup enough of that capital to get a bill passed which would increase the number of places we can carry. The more that people act up, OCing when it is socially tone-deaf to do so, the longer it will take to recoup that capital.

I am NOT saying you shouldn't OC. I AM saying that you should be sensitive to the social overtones when you do, remembering that you are an ambassador for the second amendment, and that.....as I am fond of repeating lately....the eyes of Texas are upon us. Fair or not, how we carry ourselves in public over the next few months to a year will have a heavier than normal impact on how licensed carry is perceived by the general public going forward.......and the public votes, and not always how we would like them to vote.

parabelum wrote:You know, I've already posted several times on this topic, and I'm sitting here bewildered at the responses.

I can tell you that if we had people like this in Sarajevo in '92, I'd be long dead.

People, look at your Country, take a look around, you are losing it all little by little, sometimes by self sabotaging and other times by whining.

Dang it, I thought this was a forum where grown tough man come to talk about gun related topics, and I've seen more complaining on this OC bill here then I get from my 12 year old daughter...

Act like men and be happy you live in this great State, in this great Country, enjoying freedoms that other folks only dream about. I know, because I was once one of them before I came here.


Get along and stop bickering.

I come from such a state too, but let me ask you something...... when somebody pees in your cornflakes, are you bickering if you object? Are you the one who doesn't know how to get along if you object?

That is what is happening here. We have a new law. It may or may not have been as important to pass as a couple of other laws, but it is a good law nonetheless. But, a couple of organizations peed in everyone's cornflakes for the two years running up to the passage of the law, causing passage of that law to burn up an enormous amount of political capital........and that causes problems in other areas of legislation, not all of which are gun related. Be that as it may, the tensions that were ratcheted up by the pre-passage behavior of those two organizations was a form of peeing in everyone's cornflakes because it affects ALL of us......not just them. Then, post-passage, a subset of people who carry displayed a certain level of social tone-deafness in their open carry choices, with resultant consequences that (again!) affect ALL of us, which was another example of peeing in everyone's cornflakes.

On the side of reason, the argument was this: "hey, please moderate your behavior, or the consequences are going to affect ALL of us". On the side of unreason, the answer was to pee in everyone's cornflakes.

So I ask you, exactly who is failing to get along with whom, and exactly who is bickering? When someone is rushing headlong toward a cliff and that person is tied to you by a long rope, and you say, "hey, you better put the brakes on or you're going to drag both of us over the cliff", which person is failing to "get along", the guy who is rushing toward the cliff, or the guy who is warning him that both are going to perish if he doesn't stop? Who is bickering, the person who dismisses common sense advice, or the person who offers the common sense advice?

Yes, I am happy to have the ability to carry a firearm in Texas (and a bunch of other states as well) after having lived in California most of my life until 2006. But while I think that OC is an advancement, I also would have been OK if it didn't pass this time and we had passed an expanded list of places where we can carry instead. I'm glad that OC passed. But only a fool would refuse to acknowledge their own part in any social transaction while open carrying. Again, I repeat, the eyes of Texas are upon us. Let us be worthy of that.

Right2Carry wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

Right2Carry wrote:Other states don't have a problem and I have yet to see a new sign anywhere yet. I am starting to think there are a lot of false reports being generated by those with an agenda. Just my opinion. I still think it's much ado over nothing since it's only 5 days into it.

The first 2 days I must of got half a dozen notifications from Texas3006 for new postings in my city. Been a few every couple of days also.

I don't use the website and I don't know if a location is verified before it is actually added. Seems to me if only one report of a location is needed there are those that could post false reports of sinage for any number of nefarious reasons. I am not saying this is happening but it could happen without some type of verification process.

the number of new postings compared to the number of businesses in Texas is bound to be minuscule at best. This is all an over reaction by people who refuse to let things settle out and give it a chance.

Then let me suggest that you SHOULD use the website. Many of the listings, including the couple that I've posted myself, include photos of the signs taken by the person who posted that location on the website. BEFORE 1/1/16, I probably received 5 or 6 notification emails of new postings or edits to exiting posts (a feature of that site) over the previous 2-3 years. SINCE 1/1/16, I've received probably 2-3 PER DAY - each representing a new 30.07 sign, and in some cases, a previously unposted business putting up both 30.06 and 30.07 signs. How many emails you personally receive will depend on how large of a metropolitan region you live in. I live in NE Tarrant county, in the DFW metroplex. Each one of those newly posted businesses represents a reaction to the passage of open carry.......and some of them a reaction to someone having actually open carried into that business.

Furthermore, not only are the additions to the database fairly accurate, but site members can update the listings others have posted if they see changes, which helps to ensure a certain amount of ongoing relevance. Next to this forum and the DPS website, texas3006.com is the single most useful source of information for licensed carriers in Texas.

But the truly disheartening thing is the number of previously UNposted businesses which have included 30.06 in their new signage. THAT was absolutely predicted and predictable. Although I am glad that open carry passed, it is a FACT that, partly as a result of the behavior of open carry militancy, there are fewer places that I can now lawfully conceal carry. That is a fact. If you deny that fact, then it casts doubt on the rest of your reasoning surrounding this issue. The only HONEST answer for OC activists is to admit that their own behavior is at least partly responsible for the escalation of tensions in the public's mind regarding all forms of lawful carry - whether we are talking about the concealed or open carry of handguns, or the open carry of long guns. Hot-headed, unwise, intemperate, short-sighted, reality-denying behavior by a pack of unregenerate fools before passage of OC poisoned the well for legal open carry post-passage. And as Charles pointed out above, I now have fewer places than before where I may defend myself with the best tool for the job.

My biggest disappointment in all of this is learning how many of my fellow 2nd amendment advocates showed themselves to be so fundamentally unwise — NOT in their advocacy, but in the manner of its execution.

We asked for OC. We got OC. Now let us demonstrate through SOBER and VIRTUOUS behavior that we actually merited the confidence which the legislature placed in us. And part of that sober virtuosity includes not screwing things up going forwards, not just for ourselves, but for future generations of Texans. And THAT requires that we STOP thinking in terms of selfish instant gratification, and START thinking like statesmen. It might not be fair, but the eyes of Texas are upon us. BE WORTHY of that.

baldeagle wrote:All of this was predictable.

It was more than predictable. It was predicted. And it came to pass.

I don't have regrets about passage, but I DO have major regrets about people who carry and don't care what damage they do to the reputations of all of us. THAT is a huge regret.

Pride goeth before the fall.