TexasCHLforum.com

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

AJSully421 wrote:

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

EdnaBambrick wrote:Here's the situation.

I live in a Texas subdivision that has community mailboxes. The mailbox for my house is down a few houses from mine. On several occasions, the resident of that house allows their large (pitbull like) dog to run freely in the front yard or from the curb to the home. On 2 occasions the dog has charged me while I was going to pick up the mail. The owner calls the dog and so far nothing has happened but I am not sure how long my luck or the dog's training will hold out.

As a CHL holder and a result of the continued instances of the dog being loose I've decided it's now necessary to carry when I go to collect my mail. Furthermore, I've stopped my wife and child from collecting the mail.

But if and when it becomes necessary to pull and shoot to stop this dog at what point am I justified ?

When the dog charges ? Within a certain distance ? Must I get bitten first ? What if all of this occurs within the property lines of the residents yard* ?

*The person with the dog is not the owner of the house, but either a sporadic renter or friends of the residents. I confirmed this through license plate searches and tax records.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

First and most important legal point.

If the subdivision dedicated the street rights-of-way to the approving political subdivision, then in all likelyhood, the first 8 to 12 feet from the back of the curb are PUBLIC property and so is the community mail box. If the dog comes at you then, His own yard is not an element of what happens.

Check your subdivision plat and the approving authority for more definite information.

Easy there... I had to recently make two members of my local police department keenly aware of the difference between city/public property and my property with an easement.

I can 100% guarantee you that the first 8-12 feet of someone's yard in a subdivision IS NOT declared to be "public property". It will most certainly belong to the property owners. What there is out there is an easement so that utilities can be run, accessed and maintained... Sometimes there is even a sidewalk. While it is true that you cannot CT the cable guy from the box out front, nor prevent kids from riding bikes on the sidewalk... The doctrine of an easement is to give access to another person or party to what is wholly and entirely YOUR property. Just because any member of the public can walk down the sidewalk easement in front of my house does not make it public property, and does not heighten or lessen my justification to shoot anyone or anything that is attacking me.

Mr. Sully421,

As a former LEO and as a current Professional Land Surveyor, in the state of Texas for almost 30 years, I can state that in many instances your 100% Guarantee is worthless. It all depends on the way the subdivision was created and accepted at to whether or not the footage immediately behind the curb is public or private and easements have nothing to do with that determination except for roadway or other passageway easements. I own a house in a subdivision with 28 feet wide paving and an 80 feet wide dedicated street right of way. The only Property rights I have in that 80 feet are Reversionary rights to 1/2 of the street if it becomes legally closed while I own the adjacent property. It is not in my deed, I do not pay taxes on it and I am not legally liable if someone has an accident while traversing it.

cacciato2006 wrote:<I can 100% guarantee you that the first 8-12 feet of someone's yard in a subdivision IS NOT declared to be "public property". It will most certainly belong to the property owners. What there is out there is an easement so that utilities can be run, accessed and maintained... Sometimes there is even a sidewalk. While it is true that you cannot CT the cable guy from the box out front, nor prevent kids from riding bikes on the sidewalk... The doctrine of an easement is to give access to another person or party to what is wholly and entirely YOUR property. Just because any member of the public can walk down the sidewalk easement in front of my house does not make it public property,>

I wouldn't 100% guarantee it. The street and typically a sidewalk adjacent to the street are located within a Right of Way (ROW) that is city (public) property. In Richardson the alley way behind our homes are also included in a ROW. Your property may be additionally encumbered with various other utility and access easements where the property owner owns the land (pays the taxes) but various organizations have access via those easements. I'm a civil engineer and work for a city and I have to clear this topic up with at least one resident each and every week when I tear down a tree building a road that they think is theirs or some other property they have installed in City ROW.

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

EdnaBambrick wrote:Here's the situation.

I live in a Texas subdivision that has community mailboxes. The mailbox for my house is down a few houses from mine. On several occasions, the resident of that house allows their large (pitbull like) dog to run freely in the front yard or from the curb to the home. On 2 occasions the dog has charged me while I was going to pick up the mail. The owner calls the dog and so far nothing has happened but I am not sure how long my luck or the dog's training will hold out.

As a CHL holder and a result of the continued instances of the dog being loose I've decided it's now necessary to carry when I go to collect my mail. Furthermore, I've stopped my wife and child from collecting the mail.

But if and when it becomes necessary to pull and shoot to stop this dog at what point am I justified ?

When the dog charges ? Within a certain distance ? Must I get bitten first ? What if all of this occurs within the property lines of the residents yard* ?

*The person with the dog is not the owner of the house, but either a sporadic renter or friends of the residents. I confirmed this through license plate searches and tax records.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

First and most important legal point.

If the subdivision dedicated the street rights-of-way to the approving political subdivision, then in all likelyhood, the first 8 to 12 feet from the back of the curb are PUBLIC property and so is the community mail box. If the dog comes at you then, His own yard is not an element of what happens.

Check your subdivision plat and the approving authority for more definite information.