TexasCHLforum.com

kw5kw wrote:

Excaliber wrote:
Here are a few possibilities to think about. The way the situation unfolds will determine whether or not they are possible or appropriate:

1. Verbal challenge: "That's close enough. Stop there and state your business." Most folks will stop and say something that will clarify their intentions at this point. Failure to stop would support an interpretation of aggressive intent. If this happens, a second verbal challenge can be used: "Do not come closer. If you do, you'll be treated as a threat to my safety." That's pretty explicit. Anyone who approaches anyway almost certainly has aggressive intent. Your challenge here will be to determine the level of threat and the appropriate response.

2. Improve tactical positioning: Staying on the motorcycle while being approached gives you little flexibility of movement. If the subject gets close, your defensive options would be few. If it looks like he intends to get within contact distance or like he is positioning himself for a weapon attack, dismounting and keeping the motorcycle between you and the subject and/or moving to a position of better cover (behind a tree / light pole / another vehicle, etc.) gives you more options and the subject another opportunity to communicate his intent by his actions. It also demonstrates an intent to deescalate and withdraw on your part. If he pursues you, the subject would be further demonstrating aggressive intent.

3. Take out your cellphone and call 911. Report the situation and the tag number of the subject's vehicle, state that you fear you are about to be attacked, and request police response. Advise the subject that police have been called and are responding. Tell him to either maintain his distance and wait for them, or get back in his vehicle and leave.

That all takes one thing that asleep didn't have -- time; especially #3.

From the distances that have been described asleep only had between .75 and 1.5 seconds to act.

I feel that asleep reacted appropriately.

kalipsocs wrote:

asleepatthereel wrote:What wouldnt have been justified is immediately opening fire on the vehicle and the person(s) inside. Had I or anyone else done such a thing, then yes, I might think it was unjustified, and if I was on a Jury, I would tend to think that the CHL holder fired because he was mad at the other driver, depending on the circumstances.
That would definately give the CHL community a black eye, not to mention sending the shooter to prison.

Had the guy continued toward me after I yelled at him to stop, and continued agressively toward me, then I would have fired on him and let the jury decide my fate. Luckily for both of us, he saw the error in his ways and left.

I am not going to give a bunch of commentary. I will just say given what you had, and accounting for all the adrenaline other X factors, I only hope that I could react so swiftly but rationally. Good job and glad no one was hurt or having to face a grand jury.

shootthesheet wrote:At the moment you drew your weapon you were not justified. The threat had passed and you would probably be arrested for shooting him and could have for pulling on him. That is my opinion. You should have found a way to leave or deescalate the situation. As it was, you put your CHL and rights at risk by pulling on him. Not to mention the reputation of CHL holders all over the state. I am just looking at it the way a jury would. He didn't run you off the road or try to otherwise harm you. No flame and I am glad you got thru the situation with no one being harmed.

G.A. Heath wrote:

asleepatthereel wrote:Last week I was coming home from work on my motorcycle at about 0300 on a dark road where they are doing alot of roadwork. The speed limit on this road is 45, but changes to 35 at the city limits, and the local PD make a point of frequenting the area looking for speeders. So Im driving 45 and there is another vehicle about 30 yards behind me. When we got to the spot where it slows to 35, this vehicle gets very close to my bike, and flashes the high beams and lays on the horn. Thinking the person was driving was having a bad night or something, I pull as far to the right as I can. This is a two lane road that will eventually be a divided four lane. I pulled to the right thinking he would just go around me as we were the only two vehicles on the road. Instead, he gets closer and continues the flashing and horn blowing. I was about to just speed up when he started to go around me. When he got beside of me, he started to come over toward me forcing me to slow down. Before I knew it, he had pulled in front of me, and stopped forcing me to do the same. I dont remember drawing my Kimber, but when he exited the car, that was the first thing he saw. I do remember yelling at him to stop and get back in the vehicle. The way we were stopped, I could see inside the car from his dome light. The guy said something about me getting a faster motorcycle or something to that effect, got back in the car and litterally smoked the tires leaving. At this point, the adrenaline started flowing as I started to realize what had just transpired. I wasnt far from the police station, and started to go there to report the incident, then remembered they have a jail there and CHL holders are barred from entering. Having nowhere to safely store my .45, I pulled into a well lit parking lot and called them to have an officer come to me. The officer was very supportive, even though I didnt have any real info on the perp other than he was a well dressed white male in a large white foreign luxury car like a Lexus or BMW. The dispatcher asked that I unload the weapon before the officer arrived, so I did. He asked to see it and remarked that he had always wanted an Ultra Carry like mine. In all the experience with the officer went very well, and he even let me load the weapon back and reholster as he stood there. This is the first time I have ever had to draw my weapon on anyone, and I am very glad I didnt have to pull the trigger.
I do practice at home with snap caps drawing and turning off the safety. I think my Instructor called it 'muscle memory' or something to that effect, and I can ensure you that it does work. I had the weapon out safety off and ready to use had the need arisen.
I dont think the whole time from the time we stopped to the time he left was more than 15 seconds, but it seemed like an hour, so time seems to slow down too.
I do amit I briefly considered not reporting it, but then what would have happened if the perp had called the police and told them a crazy biker had just pulled a gun on him and he had my plate numbers. Besides, I have too much invested in my plastic to risk it.
OK, Im open to critique, so if anyone would have done the same or different in my situation, fill me in.

Being prepared when the aggressor stepped out of the vehicle was the smart move. If he stepped out with a gun and you were not prepared your life could have ended there. As for the idea of fleeing upon seeing the aggressor's empty hands once he was out of the vehicle the OP made a smart decision not to as he would have had to holster his weapon (this could allow the aggressor to draw his own if he was carrying) and then flee putting his back to an aggressor who could potentially be retrieving a long gun from the trunk of his vehicle or drawing a concealed firearm of his own. As for disarming prior to the officer arriving, that was a tactical and legal mistake in my opinion. Your aggressor could now be looking for you along with some armed buddies, while someone passing by could see you unloading your weapon and call the police in regards to a "crazy biker with a gun" and end up with you being charged with failure to conceal. The ideal solution would be to advise the dispatcher that for legal reasons and your own safety you can not unload the weapon but tell them where the weapon is located and that will keep your hands on the handle bars of the bike until the officer arrives and tells you otherwise.

overall the situation worked out very well in the end without any apparent legal or health issues so in review it was the best solution for that situation.

smokindragon wrote:I truly commend you, I think you acting accordingly to the situation you had in front of you.

My only hope is I can act as Kewl' as you did, If the occasion ever arose for me to draw.

Thanks for your addition to the forum.

KD5NRH wrote:Another thing you might want to start doing is building up a habit of noticing license plates. Every time you see a car, read the plate to yourself before you look for other details. It will become second nature, and you'll have a pretty good chance of being able to give a partial plate even if the situation distracts you like this one.

Of course, it can get a bit too ingrained; sometimes I'll notice plate number, but not color, make/model/year, etc. You might also look into a cheap digital camcorder and a mount for your bike; it can get some really cool videos anyway, and with audio recording too, it can be a pretty good witness in a situation like this.

barres wrote:I think you did the right thing. Especially by calling the police. He who calls first usually wins.

I do have one small thing to correct, but it has no bearing on whether you did right or wrong. Jails are not statutorily off limits to CHL holders. Prisons are, but not jails. And Police Stations, if they are to disarm you, must provide storage, IIRC. Just for future reference, because I think calling was the wiser choice than riding there for time's sake.

mrvmax wrote:Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.