TexasCHLforum.com

NcongruNt wrote:

jimlongley wrote:

Stupid wrote:4. some may even forget to pump in the adrenaline high.

Not if you're somewhat used to the gun. Yes, I'll admit that I transitioned from a pump to a semi-auto in a "strange gun" stage at a match some years ago, and couldn't figure out how to pump the semi until I realized that it loaded itself. But unless you are really used to a semi-auto and take up a strange pump and expect it to cycle itself, you will remember how to pump, particularly if you know your gun.

If I have learned anything from these forums, it is that under stress you revert to your training. Whatever you use, you need to train with it. If you never shoot the gun you plan on using as a defense weapon, then yes - you might forget to pump the action. If, however, you spend considerable time training with that very gun, you will revert to that training and are unlikely to suddenly forget to operate it.

I have a Remington 870 for home defense. I've spent considerable time with it, practicing moving/shooting drills, multiple target drills, transition drills, and shooting from various positions. I'm quite confident with my ability to make rapid successive shots and keep them on target. Because I've trained with this gun and continue to do so, I have no doubt it will serve me quite sufficiently were the need to arise, and that I will have no issues with forgetting to operate the gun.

jimlongley wrote:

Stupid wrote:
When using a pump:

1. your pumping sound gives away your position and might cause your target to fire at the sound

So you're saying your shot doesn't give you away, just the sound of pumping a new round into the chamber?

Stupid wrote:2. pump action requires rigorous practice so that under stress you wouldn't under-pump and jam your gun - this happens A LOT

In several years of three gun and shotgun combat matches, I haven't seen it happen that much, where are you shooting that you have seen this so much?

Stupid wrote:3. when working with your pump action, without adequate practice, it moves your gun away from the target.

So? When responding to a threat in your home, without adequate practice, you're probably going to screw up in so many other ways it won't matter. Actually, I use a pump 12 gauge in matches, and have never, even when I was new at it, had a problem staying on target while pumping. I have had semi-autos throw me farther off target than my pump ever did.

Stupid wrote:4. some may even forget to pump in the adrenaline high.

Not if you're somewhat used to the gun. Yes, I'll admit that I transitioned from a pump to a semi-auto in a "strange gun" stage at a match some years ago, and couldn't figure out how to pump the semi until I realized that it loaded itself. But unless you are really used to a semi-auto and take up a strange pump and expect it to cycle itself, you will remember how to pump, particularly if you know your gun.

Stupid wrote:5. recoil is much worse than semi

Maybe, but that would also depend somewhat on the semi-auto, and the "much" is the contentious word, just how much is much? I have shot two different types of shotgun, a semi and a pump, and then transitioned to an M1 Garand, followed by an '03-A3 Springfield in the same match, and I can tell you I hardly noticed the difference. I know other shooters who have experienced the same.

Stupid wrote:6. follow up shots and speed of shooting are seriously impaired because of having to work with the pump. Given the choice, no self-respecting shooter would ever use a pump when shooting for speed. Watch any Skeet Shooting video on youtube.

Once again, practice is key, and I have seen several pump shooters, including the great Tom Knapp, outshoot semi-autos one on one. Your statement is almost as bad as standing next to Jerry Miculek and saying revolvers can't shoot faster than semi-auto pistols.

Plus, the pump gives you the capability of easily cycling the action in case of a misfire or jam, not real easy with a semi-auto.

As for your examples"

Stupid wrote:http://www.metacafe.com/watch/163920...amazing_shots/

That link got a message that the page requested didn't exist, and

Stupid wrote:Still don't believe me? Watch the movie The Matrix Lobby Shooting scene below. Should any of these police officers have used a semi-auto, Neo would be a piece of dead meat. Watch how slow the guy shooting the pump action shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc1SpDgUIA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Citing fictional movies where people run up walls and do flips through full auto gunfire that is destroying building structure around them makes me wonder if you have lost touch with reality.

Stupid wrote:Still not convinced? Just think hard about why all the armies of the world transited from single shot to bolt action, to semi-auto to full auto on their rifles. Why do they choose full auto over semi over single shot? Three reasons: speed of shooting, ability to keep the gun on target and simplicity of operating the semi and full auto action.

Consider that the US Army never even considered a pump action rifle in that transition, and then also take into account the fact that they have gone away from full auto fire to burst fire. Why? Because full auto does not stay on target. Because "speed of shooting" does NOT equal firepower. and if simplicity were truly a key factor, they would still be using break open actions. Semi and full auto firearms require much more care than their less complicated counterparts, and reward you with jams and malfunctions if you don't take care of them, even the highly touted Kalashnikovs.

But, really, The Matrix???