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The Annoyed Man wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:The scenario as presented doesn't call for deadly force. Wading in with an axe handle ala Buford Pusser to disperse the gathering is also questionable. The best bet, IMO, is to call the local constabulary and report an unlawful gathering on and about your vehicle. Who knows the "thugs" you perceive may be a band of Hara Krishnas holding a prayer meeting.

Another idea, wild as it seems, is to avoid neighborhoods where thugs, methheads, crackheads, hookers and assorted other undesirables hang out.

Good night, Mrs Calabash...wherever you are.

PS:

(There are a couple of "oldies" hidden in here, anybody see 'em?)

There are precisely three:

1) Buford Pusser, the subject of the original Walking Tall movie;
2) Hara Krishas, who used to infest airports asking for money and seriously asking for a beat-down;
3) and Mrs. Calabash, Jimmy Durante's signoff line from his radio and television shows.

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:There are a couple of "oldies" hidden in here, anybody see 'em?

I got a couple. Walk tall with your schnozzola in the air.

Cobra Medic wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:IANAL and just out of curiosity, is "force" and "deadly force" treated the same by the courts?

A good CHL instructor will teach Texas Law.

A great CHL instructor will teach Texas Law and provide additional food for thought.

A poor CHL instructor will teach their opinion instead of Texas law.

WildBill wrote:

Cobra Medic wrote:

WildBill wrote:There is a recent thread about a group of thugs sitting on a car so the owner felt he couldn't safely get in his car and drive home. Shouldn't a person have the right to physically remove them from their property without being arrested for assault? Do the police have this right?

PC 9.41

A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property

A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property

That you sir.

Excaliber wrote:

Let's think through the situation you posed, even though it's really unlikely because inner city folks who engage in this type of behavior don't spend a lot of time in areas not covered by cell service.

Excaliber wrote:

olafpfj wrote:

So you were told by the dispatcher to escalate the situation so the police would intervene.

I wasn't told TO escalate. I was told that unless an escalation occurred by them or myself that the police would not respond. Legally I understand the police departments stance since technically no crime had yet occurred. I just really found it troubling to have the police advise me in that manner when there was clearly trouble brewing. It was definitely as situation of just because I could doesn't mean I should. These types of situations highlight a really sticky area of the law for civilians. A police officer can stop and arrest someone on suspicion and effectively prevent a crime (ie. someone skulking around a store at night with a bag of tools). As a civilian it seems that I have to wait until the crime is actually in progress and even then I would be afraid that I could be painted as the one who escalated the situation by confronting the perpetrator. I chose to leave well enough alone and the gang got bored and wandered off eventually but that really irritates me that the police wouldn't help, they would only pick up the pieces.

What you were told may well not have been department policy. It may have been just a civilian dispatcher making it up as he went along or wanting to reduce his / her workload. This happens.

If I were told that, I would politely ask to speak with the shift commander. I'd be willing to bet I'd get a much more satisfactory response and the dispatcher would receive some "counseling" after the dispatch recordings were reviewed.