TexasCHLforum.com

You guys are braver than me. I don't believe I will dare an officer of the law to arrest me during a traffic stop. I usually have plenty of stuff do without adding a trip to jail. It is easier to just say OK and go on about my business. This is not to say I would just roll over if I got arrested on false charges, it is just to say that I would not ask for it.

wgoforth wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote: Actually, they suggested you seek legal advice for your question.

You are correct, they did...while telling me what a reasonable and prudent person would do.....

Also remember, the rank and file processing department at the CHL division are not experts on the carry laws any more than the office manager or receptionist at your Doctors office is an expert on medicine. The mistake I see they made is trying to help out by giving advice on carry laws. What they should have done is refused to answer and referred you to an attorney.

I can assure you that the folks who are going to make the decision on whether or not to arrest you aren't going to call the CHL department for advice. It really does not matter what the processors think at the CHL department.

I know one thing for sure, if I were in charge down there, I would tell all my people to not address questions like this. I think they were trying to be helpful and now it has back fired on them.

57Coastie wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote: Actually, they suggested you seek legal advice for your question.

Can you believe I agree with you, Lightning? Wow!

Jim

PS Charles! Where are you? Should I send out the Coast Guard?

I can now die a happy man.

wgoforth wrote:

RPB wrote:Or, just get a big shirt to cover your pistol and have it screenprinted with :
"I WANT TO BE A TEST CASE AND I MAY BE CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN"
That also would be a way to draw attention to the matter and alert businesses and legislators to change the law so that she becomes correct, or possibly the newspaper articles from anti-gun reporters make the business owners more aware and will all post the proper signage to prohibit concealed carry. As long as I'm not breaking any laws, my motto is ...
"Concealed is concealed" and "Silence is Golden" (Frankie Valli & The 4 Seasons, 1964) Don't ask, Don't tell.
I probably won't be replying to this thread again and bumping it to the top for all the anti-gunners to study.

I understand your point, and concealed is concealed. Mind you, I wasn't dealing with a store or business, I was asking the DPS CHL Division after finding local DPS are saying "No Gun" signs apply to CHL.

The point is that not everyone working in the CHL division is a lawyer. They are paper pushers. They are not required to know the specific laws on carrying a firearm. they only need to know how to process your application. SO......it doesn't really matter what they think. Actually, they suggested you seek legal advice for your question.

LOL... this is like assuming the person who processes your drivers license is some kind of expert on driving. I have an idea. Don't expect anything other than an opinion when you ask rank and file paper pushers legal questions.

Dad24GreatKids wrote:So what are the chances that the Legislature will do something to clarify all of this during the next session? Who do we need to be contacting in state government about these types of gray areas?

There actually aren't any gray areas. The law is the law. Your responsibility is to know it. CHL instructors don't make the law. State workers don't make the law. Where you can and can't carry is specifically laid out. What signs can and cannot be legally applied to you are also specifically spelled out.

Maybe I grew up different than some folks but where I come from Police officers don't randomly harass good honest citizens while they are just standing around in any establishment. As a matter of fact, Police officers typically say howdy if I say howdy to them and very often they will even say howdy first, once I make eye contact. I can't imagine, for one second, some police officer just randomly asking me for my ID for no reason other than a strange twist of fate. This is so ridiculous it is beyond comprehension. Would this random request for "papers" be similar to Nazi Germany under Hitler?

This is yet another example of an irrational fear.

chabouk wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:One more question would need to be asked.

Police question: " Why on earth did you tell them you had a concealed weapon?"
Wrong Answer: "Because I was feeling guilty about carrying a deadly weapon and needed to hear someone tell me I was morally correct in my decision to carry in here."
Right Answer: "Because I am a complete moron."

Best answer: "I didn't tell them, exactly. More like it was kind of obvious when I shot the armed robber."

Exactly...and in a situation like that, who cares what kind of sign they had? Sure beats being found dead, right beside the non-compliant sign with no gun. I have no desire to die and then have everyone say..."If only he had his weapon... and gosh, he didn't even have to disarmed... what a great upstanding guy he was"!

The real point I was trying to make is that unless a person is seriously lacking in their manner of concealed carry, these issues will never be an issue. Yes...if you get unlucky and lightning strikes, they will know your armed...IF you are forced to use the gun...but this suddenly falls again into the, "Who cares what sign I saw...at least I am alive", category.

It appears that some folks are absolutely paranoid about being discovered carrying a handgun. I say paranoid because it is an irrational fear. Nobody knows your carrying but you and the folks you tell.

chabouk wrote:

austinrealtor wrote:

chabouk wrote:PC 30.05(f) provides a defense to prosecution unless valid notice is given under 30.06

That is why it remains legally possible to get a conviction for non-compliant notice. Change that defense to an exception, and all will be right.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, any sign that in any way says something to the effect of "no guns" (be it a gunbusters sign or something else), COULD potentially lead to a conviction for criminal trespassing if a CHLee enters said premises with a gun because the 30.05 wording is merely a defense to prosecution, and thus a judge or jury could in their judgment simply reject your defense and convict you anyway?

ScottDLS did a great job of explaining (and like him, I don't let the possibility stop me from carrying).

In a perfect storm of bad prosecutor, bad defense attorney, bad judge, bad jury, and your own ill-advised statements, yes: I believe you could be convicted.

Police question: "So, did you see the big red 'NO GUNS' signs on the doors?"
Wrong answer: "Yeah, but they don't apply to me."
Right answer: "I want to talk to my lawyer before answering any questions."

One more question would need to be asked.

Police question: " Why on earth did you tell them you had a concealed weapon?"
Wrong Answer: "Because I was feeling guilty about carrying a deadly weapon and needed to hear someone tell me I was morally correct in my decision to carry in here."
Right Answer: "Because I am a complete moron."

Kinetic wrote:If A CHL holder is prudent, he would not be getting a verbal or written notice because they would not know you had a concealed firearm.

This is very true, but we have a large number of CHLers who are concerned with X-ray vision.