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Crossfire wrote:Sorry, 61 posts on this Utah thread, 155 on the OTHER one. This whole Utah debate is giving me a headache. Lightning, you have pain meds? Are you sharing? No, no, JUST KIDDING, really! I have my own.

I have tried really hard to stay out of this debate. I do have a somewhat vested interest in this whole thing. So, no, I am not going to make any absolute statements that you guys can twist around, and might cause damage to the Utah program, or endanger our reciprocity.

You guys need to remember - this is an open forum. You don't have to be a member to read it. Nuff said?

Amen to that. Oh goody....another thread on the Utah carry debate. Wish I hadn't missed it. J/K.

I am almost off them. Three months of agonizing pain from a crushed nerve, I didn't even know you could crush a nerve. Hopefully back to hitting the weights again. i need to work on my personal guns so that i can maybe avoid having to use my mechanical guns. I have new rules for working out now.... they are more suited to a guy my age. Least that is what the Doctors are telling me... and after some of the pain i went through I believe I will follow their advice this time around.

have a good evening.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Hey, you know what? I actually agree that the judge may not take kindly to it. But try this one on for size.... I don't care. Why? Because if I am actually involved in a second legitimate self-defense shooting while my CHL is under suspension, then I needed that gun, didn't I? And I'm not some kind of Palladin. I avoid trouble at all costs. But sometimes, trouble finds you. And in that event, I would rather be prepared than dead.

If I shoot some gansta crip (or aryan nation, or mexican mafia, or what have you) in self-defense, my CHL is suspended, and his homies come hunting for me and find me, and I am suddenly now in dire need of a gun and don't have one, then I'm going to be dead. I would rather be alive and judged by 12 than dead and carried by six, regardless of what the law says. Wouldn't you? At that point, my need to survive trumps whether or not a judge might be irritated with me.

Now, I submit that said judge is going to not take it lightly the second time around - regardless of whether or not I have a CFP from Utah. However, I believe that an attempt to mount a legal defense by claiming authority to carry under my CFP is a better defense than no defense at all. But also, as I am now repeating for the 3rd time or so in this thread, I would follow the advice of my lawyer at that time. Why, because just as IANAL, YANAL either. And more importantly, YANML.

Now you see.... I like this response! Sorry it took so long to get around to reading it.

And now we have five pages.

The reason we won't read Crossfire say to carry under Utah if Texas suspends your license is obvious. Like I have been trying to say all along is that this is very sticky paper we walk on.

Personally, I would love to have it on authority that if texas suspends or revokes my CHL, I can use my Utah and get away with it. I just can't seem to find an attorney or CHL instructer who will come right out and tell me to do this.


Maybe it is one of those "things" that could cause reciprocity problems down the road so nobody wants to make Texas law makers void reciprocity. Maybe it is similar to the deal where folks advertise getting the Utah to avoid texas CHL. I dunno.... but I am basing my beliefs on common sense and the law rarely follows this coarse. Sorry bout the spelling... my pain meds are kicking in now and I am getting a bit out of it.

Cobra Medic wrote:How did we fit 150 posts on 4 pages?

LOL...I went with Crossfire on that count. Please don't ask me to go back and verify that too.

sjfcontrol wrote:Give me a break. Laws tell you what you CAN'T do. Not what you can! show me the law that says you can eat pizza! it ain't there. So you are now legally prevented from ever eating pizza again in this state until they pass a law allowing it,

If you can't point out the law that invalidates the Utah license when the texas CHL is suspended, then it's legal. End of discussion.

No...Crossfires answer to my direct question will be end of discussion. Of course we could all wonder why it took 150 posts to get there, but if her answer is yse.... carry under Utah if texas suspends your license, I will have to give in to her greater knowledge on the topic.

Crossfire wrote:

If Texas law says you can't carry in Texas, I read that to mean just what it says and until you show me the statuet that says Utah permits circumvent texas law.... i will continue to believe this.

You go with that thought, Lightning. In the meantime, I'm going with mine.

So, are we done here yet? 150 some odd posts in this thread. Really, is there anything new to discuss here?

So your recommendation as a profesional trainer is that if texas revokes or suspends my CHL for some legal reason, I should continue to carry under my Utah permit? Just wanted that quote in writing.

If Utah sends it back you are no longer under suspension. Good night nurse!!!!! We are talking about while your texas permit is under suspension...not up for renewal.

sjfcontrol wrote:03 -- show me the Texas law that says that out-of-state licenses are rendered invalid when your Texas CHL is suspended.

The advice to discuss with your lawyer is good -- and exactly what TAM said he would do.

And again, having your license suspended does NOT mean Texas has said you can't carry. It does not invalidate MPA.

Show me where in the law it says they aren't. You apparently miss the point....as so many seem to want to do on this forum.

If the intent of the State is to forbid you the right to carry concealed, which is JUST WHAT THEY ARE OING WHEN REVOKING YOUR PERMIT!.... carrying concealed under some other States permit may just land you in some hot water. Your in Texas.... not Utah. the laws plaimly state that when under reciprical carry, one must follow the laws of the state they are in. If Texas law says you can't carry in Texas, I read that to mean just what it says and until you show me the statuet that says Utah permits circumvent texas law.... i will continue to believe this.

How Ironic. So the State of texas suspends your CHL and you fellers are saying you can say BAH!!!! I will just carry concealed under my Utah license? LOL.... so if this were the case, why would the State bother to suspend your license in the first place.....meaning.... what would be the purpose in it? If the State says your license is suspended, for what ever reason, are they not telling you that they don't want you carrying concealed?

Keith is right in that the odds of getting caught are small, but that is really not the point here. TAM is right in that I carry concealed under the belief that concealed is concealed. but i sure as heck am not going to recommend this coarse of action to others as if it is somehow protected or a good idea. TAM.... since we are discussing past posts and I will freely admit to carrying at all times while out. Are you not the guy who recomends erring on the safe side. Now your saying if you get your right to carry concealed revoked by Texas, you are going to carry in Texas anyway.... and then try to use the ole Utah permit as your out? Interesting set of values, to say the least. Maybe misread your post.

Try this one.... why would the State of Texas revoke or suspend your CHL other than for the purpose of forbidding you the right to carry concealed in Texas?

Do the laws not say we have to follow the laws of the State we are in for non-resident carry?

So how does having an out of state permit negate your being forbidden to carry concealed in the State of texas?

yep.....getting caught would be unlikely. But if you ended up in a second self defense shooting while under suspension, and then whipped out the Utah permit as an "in your face", i would hate to see the legal bills for that one.

I believe anyone reading this thread that has a situation develop of this nature should seek the advice of their trusted attorney....

By the way.... the reason I said "cool factor" was that I met a guy in a Crossfire utah class that had carry permits from several states. i can't remember how many, but it was many. I asked him why he did this and he said it was kind of a hobby for him... collecting carry permits. I can see no reason to have permits from all states other than it is just fun to do it. "Cool factor".

I admit.... I did think it was a pretty cool thing.

Keith wrote:Annoyed Man--sjf control Well written. I couldnt have said it better. I should also be more clear as not lose license but have it suspended while under investigation. 03lightningrocks I dont know how to respond . Cool factor (please tell me your kidding) All I can say is if you have been through 2 defensive shootings with 2 very different outcomes. That just proves my point that there a good chance your going to lose something in a defensive shooting. Or in your case there is a 50% chance. Im not willing to take that chance. If my license is suspended there is no law saying I cant carry if I have a valid license from another state. Well just agree to just disagree in this situation. Hey if ya dont like what ya read you can allways just go to the next topic.

Same goes for you. If ya dont like what I have to say because it won't plug into your fantasy world of what if's? You don't have to read my posts.

I am a strong dose of reality that hopefully will keep someone here from doing something real darned stupid concerning concealed carry.

I will remind you of this. No matter where you aquire your CHL or CFP, you are to obey the laws of the State you are in at the present time. If texas says no to your ability to carry in the State of Texas, you are dreaming wild, thinking the court is going to to say you are exempt because of a CHL/CFP from some other state.... good luck with that one if the situation developes for you.

TXlaw1 wrote:

Keith wrote:I have both and highly recommend too get both. The reason is if you are ever involved in a defensive shooting you are going to temp lose your license until the courts fig out what happened. In the meen time how are you defending yourself or your family when you are out and about in public. If I lost my Texas due to the above I could still carry legally in Texas as the police wouldnt have taken my Utah license they wouldnt even know about it. I put the Utah in the gun safe its there only for such a day that I hope never happens.

Now that's an interesting comment, Keith, that changes the perspective and possible focus of this thread. Having both could be a good strategy in the situation you describe. I'd like to hear comments by others who have both licenses. Does anyone (or anyone you might know) have any experience using this dual-license strategy?

I am not sure that this is true. The part about loosing your right to carry conceal. Why would the law require I discontinue the right to have a CHL after a legit self defense shooting? Second.... if the law does require temporary loss of your right to carry concealed in Texas, trying to circunmvent that law by using a Utah CFP is sure to make the Judge mad enough to throw the book at you.

I have to just shake my head at some of the stuff i read in here. Folks!!!!!! If something legal says you can't carry concealed in Texas.... no other State can over ride that something while in texas! Even while carrying under Utah CFP in Texas, laws of Texas apply.

There are a few legitimate reasons to have a non-resident Utah CFP(beyond cool factor). Getting two additional states added to the list of places you can carry is one i can think of. Can't afford a texas is another I can come up with. Nice to have the expire dates offset so while waiting on the texas renewal would be another. Circumventing Texas Law is not a good reason!!!!

I have been involved in two self defense shootings. One of them the cops didn't even take the gun I used. The other got real expensive and they took the gun. Neither forbid me the right to own a firearm. If either had done this, i know for a fact i would have gotten thrown in jail if carrying concealed and used the stupid excuse of having a permit from some other state. LOL.

Funny thing.... it seems to me that the posts we make concerning concealed carry should have something to do with what a crock of doo it is that we need the governments permision to exercise a right garunteed us by the constitution of the United States. But nope.... we get wrapped up in which Government entity provides this permission.... which I should not have to ask for in the first place...... BY GAWD!

Just a personal observation. No offense meant to any of ya'll who feel the RKBA should come with qualifications and testing only. It just tickles the American side of me at times.

PS... sounds like Larry B. turned out to be a stand up guy after all. glad it worked out for you.